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Some folks on the internet were interested in how I had managed to ditch Docker for local development. This is a slightly overdue write up on how I typically do things now with Nix, Overmind and Just.

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[-] astral_avocado@programming.dev 0 points 1 year ago

I wish he had written why he's so anti-container/docker. That's a pretty unusual stance I haven't been exposed to yet.

[-] LGUG2Z@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Hi!

First I'd like to clarify that I'm not "anti-container/Docker". 😅

There is a lot of discussion on this article (with my comments!) going on over at Tildes. I don't wanna copy-paste everything from there, but I'll share the first main response I gave to someone who had very similar feedback to kick-start some discussion on those points here as well:

Some high level points on the "why":

  • Reproducibility: Docker builds are not reproducible, and especially in a company with more than a handful of developers, it's nice not to have to worry about a docker build command in the on-boarding docs failing inexplicably (from the POV of the regular joe developer) from one day to the next

  • Cost: Docker licenses for most companies now cost $9/user/month (minimum of 5 seats required) - this is very steep for something that doesn't guarantee reproducibility and has poor performance to boot (see below)

  • Performance: Docker performance on macOS (and Windows), especially storage mount performance remains poor; this is even more acutely felt when working with languages like Node where the dependencies are file-count heavy. Sure, you could just issue everyone Linux laptops, but these days hiring is hard enough without shooting yourself in the foot by not providing a recent MBP to new devs by default

I think it's also worth drawing a line between containers as a local development tool and containers as a deployment artifact, as the above points don't really apply to the latter.

[-] CodeBlooded@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

Docker builds are not reproducible

What makes you say that?

My team relies on Docker because it is reproducible…

[-] uthredii@programming.dev 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You might be interested in this article that compares nix and docker. It explains why docker builds are not considered reproducible:

For example, a Dockerfile will run something like apt-get-update as one of the first steps. Resources are accessible over the network at build time, and these resources can change between docker build commands. There is no notion of immutability when it comes to source.

and why nix builds are reproducible a lot of the time:

Builds can be fully reproducible. Resources are only available over the network if a checksum is provided to identify what the resource is. All of a package's build time dependencies can be captured through a Nix expression, so the same steps and inputs (down to libc, gcc, etc.) can be repeated.

Containerization has other advantages though (security) and you can actually use nix's reproducible builds in combination with (docker) containers.

[-] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago

That seems like an argument for maintaining a frozen repo of packages, not against containers. You can only have a truly fully-reproducible build environment if you setup your toolchain to keep copies of every piece of external software so that you can do hermetic builds.

I think this is a misguided way to workaround proper toolchain setup. Nix is pretty cool though.

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this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2023
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