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submitted 2 months ago by tardigrada@beehaw.org to c/politics@beehaw.org

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In 1980, white people accounted for about 80 percent of the U.S. population.

In 2024, white people account for about 58 percent of the U.S. population.

Trump appeals to white people gripped by demographic hysteria. Especially older white people who grew up when white people represented a much larger share of the population. They fear becoming a minority.

While the Census Bureau says there are still 195 million white people in America and that they are still the majority, the white population actually declined slightly in 2023, and experts believe that they will become a minority sometime between 2040 and 2050.

Every component of the Trump-Republican agenda flows from these demographic fears.

The Trump phenomenon and the surge of right-wing extremism in America was never about economic anxiety, as too many political reporters claimed during the 2016 presidential campaign.

It was, and still is, about race and racism.

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[-] t3rmit3@beehaw.org 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Try and be more open minded. The world isn’t black and white and the issues that are important to you are not universally important to everyone.

Obviously I understand this. The problem is, "racism is not important to me" is still a position with its own moral implications. Understanding a position does not mean you are alright with it. Not every sincerely-held position is equal. And yes, there are many black-and-white, "red line" positions. Genocide, murder, rape, etc, are not positions that people need to just "allow for differing opinions on".

You might make your voting decisions based on the party that bombed your homeland less.

It's funny you brought this up in particular, because I've talked before about a friend of mine who is in this position (he is Palestinian, and has lost a lot of family to Israeli- and likely US- weapons). He is anti-US-government, not anti-DNC/GOP (obviously his reaction is not universal to immigrants, but neither would any other given immigrant's reaction be).

  • If he told me that he didn't want to vote at all, I would understand and have no issue with that.
  • If he told me he was going to vote Democrat despite Biden's complicity, I'd understand that, and it would not affect my opinion of him for better or worse.
  • If he told me he was going to vote Republican because Biden was so pro-Israel, I'd understand the bad logic, and I'd think he was an idiot (and to be clear, I know he doesn't think this).
  • If he told me he wanted to harm Jewish people, I'd understand where that is coming from as an emotional reaction, but I would not be okay with any concrete steps taken towards that (and to be clear, he has never so much as intimated that).

Understanding a viewpoint does not mean you have to be equally accepting of all possible conclusions stemming from that viewpoint.

[-] Greg@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 months ago

The problem is, “racism is not important to me” is still a position with its own moral implications.

That's strawmanning my argument. I'm saying that just because someone prioritizes another issue over racism doesn't make them bigoted. And if they believe their priority issues are best addressed by the Republican party or won't be addressed by the Democrats, it would make sense for them to vote for trump.

The "all trump supporters are racists" argument comes from echo chambers and is dismissive of people's legitimate criticisms of the Democrats. It's not accurate or useful in creating meaningful discourse.

[-] t3rmit3@beehaw.org 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

That’s strawmanning my argument. I’m saying that just because someone prioritizes another issue over racism

Apologies. Please amend my comment to

The problem is, “racism is not as important to me as some other issue” is still a position with its own moral implications.

Perhaps more technically accurate, but no different in effect.

And if they believe their priority issues are best addressed by the Republican party or won’t be addressed by the Democrats, it would make sense for them to vote for trump.

I feel like you think this is a counterpoint, or in disagreement with what I said, but it's not. It's literally what I said. If your personal economic issues or religious preferences are above the well-being of others in your personal priorities, that is a moral stance that is perfectly valid to criticize. Whether you are ignoring the harms, or simply de-prioritizing them in favor of your preferred benefits, it's the same outcome.

The “all trump supporters are racists” argument comes from echo chambers

I would refer you to the first line of my first comment in this post, which said

it’s not saying simply that all Republican voters are racist, it’s saying that Trumpism and the surging Christian-Nationalist movement is

The problem is that some conservatives clearly want to be able to associate with the GOP based on piecemeal parts of their platform without actively opposing those parts they disagree with, and then have the right not to be held accountable in part for the damage that those parts they may or may not agree with do. That's not how it works. I voted for Biden, and I have to live with the damage he's done in Gaza and the West Bank. It is 1000% fair to judge me for that complicity. And that wasn't even part of his platform, but I still enabled that.

Trump is openly, unapologetically racist and sexist. If you choose to associate with him, you do have to own that.

dismissive of people’s legitimate criticisms of the Democrats.

Check my comment history if you think I have any shortage of criticism of the Democratic Party, please. I have no issues with criticism of it.

I am highly interested in what criticisms from the Right are legitimate, though. The DNC is still a Center-Right party of neoliberal corporatism, even if we're slowly making progress on it.

It’s not accurate or useful in creating meaningful discourse.

Frankly, I think we're past the point where we can have that conversation at the national level. All of the routes for that have been under attack for years. No one trusts the other side's media networks. No one trusts the other side's politicians. Forums like Beehaw or even Facebook (given the way it's structured) do not have anything even beginning to approach a national scale in their reach.

I've had good results with having these conversations with family members and a friend, but that's not sufficient to fix what is now truly a social problem.

[-] Greg@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago

I appreciate this discourse and your thoughtful responses. These kind disagreements are what we need more of. I still disagree that supporting trump necessarily means condoning racism as depending on what issues you prioritize, it may be a case of choosing the lesser of two evils.

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this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2024
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