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this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2024
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Antiwork
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A community for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles.
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This server is no longer working, and we had to move.
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Date Created: June 21, 2023
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The Anti-Work Library 📚
Essential Reads
Start here! These are probably the most talked-about essays on the topic.
- The Abolition of Work by Bob Black (1985) | listen
- On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber (2013) | listen
- In Praise of Idleness by Bertrand Russell (1932) | listen
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That's assuming they don't make the death-penalty terrorism charge stick... which they will in a heartbeat.
Have you heard of this one neat trick (jury nullification) that lawyers hate?
I don't see them letting it come to that. They'll pick jury members of which they are 100% sure they won't do jury nullification.
Remember, the whole system is behind getting him charged.
Well the whole system only gets to pick half the jury
Do you really think there's no way for the combined power of the state & capital to influence jury selection? That feels like a very naive take.
The defense has the right to pick half the jury - and defense lawyers are usually very serious about defending their clients and getting the best possible outcome. They’re going to pick the most favorable jurists they can.
IMO he got over charged and they state is gonna learn the hard way that their strategy of making an example of him will backfire.
Please see my reply to the other comment - you're assuming the pool of jurors contains enough people that would consider nullification. As far as I'm aware, the defense has no influence on this pool itself. So how do you know that the jurors the defense can choose from are actually randomly selected?
It's pretty much a given that the state knows your opinion on jury nullification if you've ever publicly posted about it. Hell, based on the Snowden leaks there's a good chance they know it if you've ever mentioned it over e.g. the telephone. How can you be sure that this knowledge isn't used to bias the jury pool?
I saw your other comment after I made this one. You bring up valid points. I think we should throw the whole country out and start over personally.
It sounds like you don't understand how jury selection works.
No, I think I understand it well enough to also understand that the system isn't perfect.
For example, the same system that is trying to get him charged is also responsible for producing the jury pool. Coincidentally, the same system regularly buys data about its citizens from big tech companies, like social media. The same social media on which plenty of people publicly commented on the case.
Unless the defense is literally involved in every step of the process (starting from voter registration), there's no way to be sure that the jury pool is actually unbiased.
Now, hopefully I'm wrong about this, and you can show me specifically how we can be absolutely sure that the jury pool is completely unbiased. But I don't think that you'll be able to do so without implicitly relying on the same system that is being defended against.
None of these systems interact in an easy enough way to rig this without involving soo many people. Which means it won't be secret enough to get away with.
Oh, you don't have any arguments beyond these platitudes? How unexpected ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Please be more specific. Roughly how many people do you expect would, at the very least, have to be involved?
I'd say you could get away with ~10 people (say 2 responsible along the actual process of producing/transporting the jury pool data, and 4x as many people that could randomly check). That's not counting the planning etc. which I think if fair to leave out (as plenty of bad shit has been planned by governments around the world without the planners revealing it).
And I think there are very realistic ways to make sure 10 (or even 20) people shut up - you can always pay well enough while also threatening their loved ones in case anything gets out.
If you assume the number is higher, please show me where the process is documented. Again, I'd love to be wrong, but "trust me bro" isn't enough. If you want a specific part of the process to focus on, I assume there's a bottleneck in the transport & verification. So let's say the data is swapped "in transport" (so e.g. if physically moved it's changed on the storage medium itself, or if it's digitally transported it's changed through MITM/modified receiving side). How many people audit the systems involved, and how many people from either side actually verify the data?