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submitted 1 year ago by zephyr@lemmy.world to c/android@lemdro.id

Don't get me wrong. Apple removing audio jack was the biggest facepalm in smartphone history. And you can thank it for not being able to make an upgrade without sacrificing audio jack (and SD card too :/). But USB-C is getting standardized everywhere now (laptops, smartphones, etc.). What makes USB-C earphones not worth the switch?

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[-] db2@lemmy.one 4 points 1 year ago

Because it needs an extra dongle that isn't free and most headphones use an ordinary audio jack.

Charging while listening.

And above all, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[-] zxo@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago

Exactly, most headphones that I like are wired with an ordinary audio jack. I don't really feel inclined to get new headphones for a new phone, and a phone without an audio jack just makes things more difficult for me.

[-] Zerfallen@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

You don't need new headphones though, just the usb-c adaptor, which you can leave permanently attached to the cable (if you only use them with your phone/laptop).

[-] FutileRecipe@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

And above all, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

This is actually terrible logic and stifles innovation. The flip phone wasn't broke....but now we have smart phones with screens.

[-] ijeff@lemdro.id -3 points 1 year ago

Just a friendly reminder to folks to keep it civil and to reserve downvotes for things that are inappropriate, not disagreement! 🙂

[-] sarsaparilyptus@discuss.online -1 points 1 year ago

I downvoted it for spreading incorrect information and being incoherent. Happy?

[-] ezures@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Touchscreen fixes the problem of maximizing the screen on the device. How does removing a jack port fixes the audio problem?

[-] FutileRecipe@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

Condenses the ports to one standard. Instead of an audio and a USB-C, you just have a USB-C. So now you can fit more/different stuff in the internals or streamline the device to make it slightly smaller or thinner. Far enough down the line when most everyone is on board, can remove support for it from the kernel, minimizing the code footprint, attack surface, and code maintenance.

Sure, it sucks now as we're in the midst of it and people are resistant to change, but fast forward to when it's universally adopted and accepted, it'll be better.

[-] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 year ago

But this is almost all false or just speculation.

Instead of having audio and usb-c, now you have usb-c port, usb-c headphone dongle, the finally audio port and usb-c port again. Unless you want to intentionally buy a usb-c exclusive set of headphones that won't work with whatever next "revolutionary port technology" comes out.

As long as they still work, good headphones from 40 years ago are still good. Headphone tech has not significantly changed. Amps, DACs, etc have, but not the actual drivers.

As far as space goes, reasonable DAC components are getting smaller and smaller while phones tend to be getting larger as people want more screen space. The space savings on hardware here is not significant. Seriously go and look up sizes of the components needed for audio out.

As far as thinner goes, the width needed for a headphone jack is like 2mm more than what's needed for a usb-c port, and there's width needed for internal speakers either way. I'm also not sure how much thinner people want cell phones to be at this point. We're pretty close to the point of sacrificing device drop resistance for size anyway (arguably we've passed that point with most people doubling the size of their phone with a protective case). Not to mention that the real thing preventing more thinness is the camera lenses now, as easily evidenced by the camera island bumps all phones have now.

Lastly, you can't seriously be arguing that analog audio out represents any significant amount of attack surface kernel wise. Like holy shit man. Wow. Yes, technically every line of code is increased attack surface, but it's a huge assumption that USB-C audio is in any way more secure or less surface.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago

Everyone's favourite old headphones not having a USB cable is likely to be the main reason.

[-] pH3ra@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

USB-C is getting standardized everywhere now

3.5 mm has been a standard from the motherfisting 1950s

[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago

The fact that there is more than one "standard" for USB-C audio is enough to hate it.

Analog 3.5mm just works with everything. No dongles, no drivers, no "unsupported device", no batteries.

It. Just. Works.

[-] macrocarpa@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

The devices that you describe are incompatible with a standard that has been mature for 50 years.

The 3.5mm jack is everywhere, it is the standard. USB C is incredibly recent.

Put it this way, if you were to walk into a store and pick up any given electronic product with audio output, would you expect it to have an audio jack, or a USB C connector?

In your drawer full of random electric cables, how many have 3.5mm plugs in them vs usb a, micro, mini, or some propriety plug? And how many could you plug into a device and just...work?

So why do you accept devices that don't have this standard?? It is beyond me.

[-] Carighan@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

There's just exactly no upsides.

Among other things, a USB-C connector is less stable than a 3.5mm jack, and can twist the cable since the connector cannot spin.

Sure, it can do a lot of things, but there's no reason to break an existing standard if the proposed successor is inherently worse.

[-] mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago
  1. I have aux earphones and it needs to work with some extension on new phones.
  2. Earphone while charging
  3. Enabling OTG for usb eaphone
[-] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Downsides of usb-c headphones:

  1. Bluetooth security risk surface, exposes your phone to more attacks. (Nobody has mentioned this yet)

  2. Most/all phones have a single usb-c port. Charging and using headphones difficult

  3. Usb-c port placement is awkwardly on bottom of phone while must headphone jacks are on top of the phone. Plugging in your headphones on the bottom of the phone with a dongle is awkward.

  4. The entire process of using a usb-c dongle or using Bluetooth headphones makes the entire system more complicated. KISS (keep it simple). The more complexity there is that can go wrong, the worse the experience. If I'm taking a important conference call, I want my audio to just work.

Not directly related: the whole point of removing the headphone jack was to sell airpods. First apple, then android, and even fair phone. Each time the jack is removed to push sales of the branded Bluetooth ear buds. It's a user hostile move.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-airpods-success

The excuse may be to save money, Space, water rating, but the reason is increased sales.

I personally still use a pixel 5A which had a headphone jack only because it's the B tier phone for markets where people are less likely to also buy the airpods.

[-] NuPNuA@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I have a headphone jack and it's on the bottom of my phone next to the USB?

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is a good example of the general enshitificstion of a service. Make part of the experience worse to drive sales or engagement with another part of the service. Just like Reddit, just like Twitter... It's user hostile. It means the marketplace is failing

[-] Laice@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

how is using bluetooth headset making it more complicated.....

All other points are valid.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 1 points 1 year ago

Bluetooth complication over a wired headset:

  1. Battery charge levels
  2. Radio interference
  3. Bluetooth time sharing with other devices
  4. Bluetooth devices getting stolen by another device while in use (ever had two phones paired to one headset?)
  5. Bluetooth microphone audio quality levels are not great
[-] S13Ni@lemmy.studio 1 points 1 year ago

Because all USB C to 3.5mm Aux adapters are flimsy as mother fuckers that break down after two months use. I would not even care otherwise, I never charge and listen at same time anyway.

If anyone has suggestions for adapter that is not made out of thinnest possible wire and is durable, let me know.

Also, I don't want to buy USB-C headphones, since I would only use those with my phone, I want to use them also on other devices, and for compatibility it is better to have it analog instead of USB-C. If I were to buy headphones for phone only, I would just get wireless.

I often have use cases at work where I have to plug in my headphones to device I am not familiar with, for audio troubleshooting at our customers device. Most of the times USB is not an option, only standard analog audio.

Modern laptops also come with way too few USB ports, 2.0 and C combined, so I rather not waste one for audio since there is no reason for audio to go through USB. On my main PC I don't use my internal soundcard but external audio interface for music production, and I want my headphones connected to that, not USB.

So in conclusion, USB-C headphones would be totally worthless to me, no matter the device. Even for phone, I rather go with adapter, or just wireless ones.

[-] Teknikal@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I am not an audiophile or anything but for these oems a headphone jack inclusion is probably pennys and wired is just superior sound, it's madness.

That said I use Bluetooth headphones mostly myself but that doesn't change the fact its inferior sound, something extra to charge and can add quite a bit of lag when playing games or other media.

Its a step backwards just to make a few pennys profit on a hundreds of pounds device. I think everyone should have the option to choose what they prefer.

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[-] Banzai51@midwest.social 1 points 1 year ago

And just when you have everything setup with USB-C, here comes the new connection standard, USB-D. Eliminating the audio jack is about planned obsolesce.

[-] fulano@lemmy.eco.br 1 points 1 year ago

Let's invert the question: what makes it worth the switch? If I'm going to change something, you have to prove why it's worth, not me proving why I shouldn't.

[-] Creat@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 year ago

I have multiple dozens of headphones that have a normal headphone plug.

I can charge my phone while I listen to headphones without carrying multiple adapters.

We can maybe talk once we get more than 1 USB c connector on a phone. Maybe.

I fucking hate the whiny answer of "but my/most existing headphones had an aux so I don't like USB-C."

The biggest factor for me is that it simply makes it impossible to charge your phone and use wired headphones at the same time without a special splitter adaptor... Which itself is impossible to roll up with your headphones.

It's designed to be such an inconvenience to the point that you're actually just incentivized to buy wireless headphones. And since it was Apple, that of course meant their very expensive Airpods.

That said, I happily use wireless Bose headphones now anyway, but I did have to ditch my audio technicas for that reason.

[-] conciselyverbose@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

I fucking hate the whiny answer of "but my/most existing headphones had an aux so I don't like USB-C."

Except, you know, it's a statement of fact and wired headphones can easily last 50 years with no reason to even consider replacing them. We're past the point where there's meaningful improvement to quality over time.

[-] knexcar@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Plus basically every other piece of audio equipment has a headphone jack, and there’s no reason they should start being manufactured with USB-C ports with all the added complexity, when all they need to do is send audio.

[-] sarsaparilyptus@discuss.online 1 points 1 year ago

Because it sucks and the 3.5mm jack is better. Manufacturers should be forced to include it or pay a punitive fee calculated to far outweigh the savings of not including the jack, perhaps $5,000 per individual unit manufactured.

[-] exscape@kbin.social -1 points 1 year ago

It's about saving space, not money. The jack is relatively large compared to other smartphone components. It's bigger than a USB-C port, for one, when you consider the volume and not just the width.

[-] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 year ago

I have a hard time accepting that argument with the camera islands on every phone now.

[-] Virkkunen@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago

It is never about saving space, it's about saving costs.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 1 points 1 year ago

It's never been about saving, it's been about selling airpods.

[-] Zeus@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

because it's already compatible with everything

i have a cheap pair of earphones in my pocket (which i'm prepared to lose). another by the door. a more expensive set of headphones upstairs. a speaker in the kitchen. and when i get in a friend's car or go to their house, i can just plug my phone in and it works without the aggravation of having to pair to their speaker

tell me, oh "you can just buy a dongle" people, what am i supposed to do? buy one and accept that i'll lose it all the time? buy 5 and keep one plugged into every 3.5mm i own and don't own?

plus, y'know - takes slightly more battery, hassle to pair, can't charge and use dongle, all the other obvious issues

[-] pgetsos@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

I need a special adapter to charge my phone simultaneously

Also, I can't connect it without an adapter to my car, my headphones or my home cinema stereo

[-] mojo@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

There are way more aux jack headphones out there, and you don't want your very high quality headphones suddenly be forced to be considered obsolete just because tech companies feel like selling a different product.

[-] Serpardum@lemmyonline.com 1 points 1 year ago

Because I can't charge my phone and use the headphones at the same time. Only 1 USB-C port on my phone.

[-] circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago

It requires extra hardware to get the same functionality I'd have by having a traditional jack.

Also the excuses these companies make up for removing it are always silly. No, the phone isn't too thin to have one* -- that's always marketing BS. It's always, always, always to save the pennies it costs to add a headphone jack. Those pennies of course add up during manufacturing.

They can save costs in that way because some people don't care. It makes a simple headphone jack seem like a nothing feature, and the narrative can be pushed that those who want it are simply latching on to the past. Something similar happens with the arguments for and against physical buttons vs. touch screens, especially in cars.

*there is a YouTube video (I believe by Strange Parts) where they add a headphone jack to an iPhone which Apple had explicitly claimed was too thin to have one.

[-] dog@suppo.fi 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
  1. USB headphones require new drivers constantly.
  2. USB headphones are likely to use proprietary apps for basic features like noise cancellation.
  3. Audio jacks use significantly less power/processing compared to USB.
  4. Audio jacks do not hog usb bus lanes, which may or may not be an issue for mobile, but on PC it is.
  5. USB headphones are in general significantly lower quality, because studio equipment uses 3.5mm or other standard jacks (XLR for microphones for example) as they cause the lowest interference.
  6. USB introduces overhead latency which is a no-go for production use.
[-] Curious_Canid@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

When companies began to drop the audio jack I was annoyed, but I figured I could just buy a converter. Which would be great if there were a universal standard for connecting audio through a USB C. There isn't. There aren't even just two competing approaches. There are all kinds of different setups that sometimes vary even within a single brand.

I found multiple adapter that said it supported my phone brand. It didn't work. I looked deeper and found some advice on adapters that would work with more recent phone. I bought one based on that and it worked, sort of. The audio quality was not great and it would occasionally just cut out for a second. My third try got me an adapter that work reliably, but the audio quality is still mediocre. My best headphones are all analog, but I have to use Bluetooth with my phone because it provides better audio.

The physical issues, particularly the connectors, guarantees that USB C will never work as well. The lack of standards for implementing it make finding compatible hardware a nightmare. And if you manage to get everything else figured out you end up with the kind of sound you can hear from an audio jack using a $5 set of earbuds. It provides no benefits to the user, only to the manufacturer.

[-] conciselyverbose@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

There's no reason to switch.

50 year old headphones are still basically fine except for the port changing.

[-] TwilightVulpine@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

I haven't seen a single phone that has more than one USB-C port, and I would like to listen to stuff while these these phones charge their miniscule batteries.

[-] Laatikko@sopuli.xyz 0 points 1 year ago

Asus ROG Phone 5 and newer has two usb-c ports.

[-] SneakyThunder@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

LMAO. They got rid of headphone jack to "save space" and then replaced it with bigger USB C connector

[-] Thorny_Thicket@sopuli.xyz -1 points 1 year ago

I do it out of principle. I disagreed with their decicion to remove it like so many others at the time but unlike the vast majority of those others I decided to vote with my wallet and to this day I refuse to buy a phone without one.

this post was submitted on 23 Jul 2023
8 points (100.0% liked)

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