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timemachineyeah

drives me up a wall living in a very very red district, like "no democrat is ever going to win any local election, let alone a real leftist" district, like "our school board members ran on who was the most anti-mask" red, like "I pass white supremacist signs on the way to buy weed" red

and being in the local leftist community and the guy who runs the anarchist book club and the lady who helps keep the warming shelters open and the people who marched on city hall when a local business was getting death threats for having a drag show are all members of a discord and we get on this discord and have frank discussions about how best to vote

the people who do the protests and the mutual aid and all the real work

going "okay, they're both fascists, but this one lacks ambition and seems happy to just glide in the position" or "they both suck, but this one can be reasoned with if you frame it patriotically enough" like we don't even have a democrat to vote for. we know what a vote is. we know what we hope accomplish with it. we know what it can do, and we know what it can't.

and going from those discussions to here where people think that your vote is some kind of fucking??? enabling maneuver??? as if someone isn't going to end up in that seat regardless of what you do???

we didn't build this system, we just live in it. we're just trying to survive. a vote isn't a statement of your values, it's not an endorsement, it's not a marriage contract, it's a strategic play you make to keep alive.

the biggest mistake I see leftists making is overestimating their own popularity. "well but everyone would be leftist if they just-" no, stop, 1) you can't possibly know that 2) everyone will not just

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[-] RGB3x3@lemmy.world 86 points 9 months ago

Here in Huntsville, AL, a Democrat recently won a representative position by a wide margin.

It's possible to turn a red city blue or keep a blue city in a red state. It just takes all people to show up to vote.

And here's the rub: Democrats far out number Republicans, so the more people that vote, the higher the percentage that Democrats can win by.

[-] Synnr@sopuli.xyz 12 points 9 months ago

Glad the city known for its phycists finally got a blue vote in!

[-] Xanis@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

It doesn't just take that in situations where deep red is the only real color. Perhaps in smaller elections, I don't know. What I do perceive is how divided we are as a Nation and as communities. I'm hoping we come together in agreement despite various valid arguments being made.

I'm just also expecting us to continue slap fighting as the Right gains a stronger hold due to our own inability to take cohesive action. This tends to be an unpopular opinion. Yet I've noticed the same trend for the last twelve years. So I try and talk about it whenever I can.

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[-] DumbAceDragon@sh.itjust.works 64 points 9 months ago

This is good. I like this actual explanation way more than the shitty bus metaphor.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 29 points 9 months ago

yay! that’s the cool thing about rhetoric is different styles represent the same ideas effectively to different audiences

[-] archomrade@midwest.social 31 points 9 months ago
[-] archomrade@midwest.social 30 points 9 months ago

You may well ask: “Why direct action? Why sit ins, marches and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?” You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood.

The purpose of our direct action program is to create a situation so crisis packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation. Too long has our beloved Southland been bogged down in a tragic effort to live in monologue rather than dialogue.

One of the basic points in your statement is that the action that I and my associates have taken in Birmingham is untimely. Some have asked: “Why didn’t you give the new city administration time to act?” The only answer that I can give to this query is that the new Birmingham administration must be prodded about as much as the outgoing one, before it will act. We are sadly mistaken if we feel that the election of Albert Boutwell as mayor will bring the millennium to Birmingham. While Mr. Boutwell is a much more gentle person than Mr. Connor, they are both segregationists, dedicated to maintenance of the status quo. I have hope that Mr. Boutwell will be reasonable enough to see the futility of massive resistance to desegregation. But he will not see this without pressure from devotees of civil rights. My friends, I must say to you that we have not made a single gain in civil rights without determined legal and nonviolent pressure. Lamentably, it is an historical fact that privileged groups seldom give up their privileges voluntarily. Individuals may see the moral light and voluntarily give up their unjust posture; but, as Reinhold Niebuhr has reminded us, groups tend to be more immoral than individuals.

[-] MB420GFY@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago

people need to remember that part of the reason the country keeps moving to the right is because there are large swaths of the population that like it that way. it's not just the elite feeding the right propaganda to the people - it's the people looking for more and more conservative candidates as they watch their 'christian nation' become secular and their white cis male dominated culture become more open.

we need to stop believing that most people are by nature good. there are plenty of little fascist dictators in every small town community that want to see people suffer.

the truth is that we need a great culling of the rotten apples in every aspect of society.

[-] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 23 points 9 months ago

it’s the people looking for more and more conservative candidates as they watch their ‘christian nation’ become secular and their white cis male dominated culture become more open.

Spot on.

plenty of little fascist dictators

While I'm not a Marxist, he had a brilliant term for these people: "Petty Bourgeoisie" They think they're in line with the upper-crust, but are just Proles that are kidding themselves.

[-] ephemeral_gibbon@aussie.zone 8 points 9 months ago

Huh, when I initially read "petty bourgeois" I thought you'd got the term wrong, but when I looked it up to check its a common anglicisation of "petite bourgeois".

I find the latter more intuitive, as it's "little bourgeois", but both are right.

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[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 13 points 9 months ago

Exactly this. No, people aren't voting for racists because they're upset with taxes or unemployment. They're voting for racists because they're racist.

[-] MB420GFY@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

it's both, but understand that both mindsets are synonymous with narcissistic behavior. both lead to suffering.

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[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 9 points 9 months ago

Frederick Douglas wasn't allowed to vote.

He worked hard for candidates who couldn't promise to abolish slavery, because Douglas knew that a tiny step forward was vastly better than doing nothing.

A lesser known hero was Dashiell Hammett. You might have heard of his books, 'The Thin Man' or 'The Maltese Falcon.' There have been dozens of movies based on his book, 'Red Harvest.' In 1941 he was richer and more famous than Stephen King is today.

Hammett supported Left causes with his money and his actions. When WW2 broke out he was a triple 4-F. Too old; a veteran of WW1; and he'd been gassed and had a medical discharge. Hammett knew all about America's Jim Crow laws, and the imprisonment of the Japanese Americans, and everything else. He volunteered, and fought hard, to get into the Army, because he hated Nazis that much.

Mention those guys when someone tells you that they can't vote for the Dems in 2024.

[-] archomrade@midwest.social 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

What?? Frederick Douglas had a famously contentious relationship with Lincoln. He wrote scathing indictments about him in his paper "Douglass' Monthly" and traveled the country agitating for Lincoln to abolish slavery. He even endorsed the dump-lincoln movement during the re-election campaign over his reconstruction plan. It was exactly his raving against Lincoln during his re-election that brought them together, because Lincoln needed Douglas's support to win. It's fucking wild to see someone name drop Douglas in defense of an incumbent candidate facing scrutiny.

He didn't 'work hard for candidates who couldn't promise to abolish slavery', he worked hard to agitate them into action. This kind of revisionist history is fucking infuriating, especially when it's used to undercut voices trying to push for progress.

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[-] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

This is one of those things where I’m in agreement but I’m also fucking tired of hearing the “lesser of two evils” bullshit (in general). The country is going to continue to drag right because that’s what benefits the ruling class. That’s the reality. Both parties and both candidates are playing their roles in this continued push. Thinking we actually have a say in the end is the first mistake, like voting in federal elections in the US is some massive action. It’s the whole ratchet effect in politics. You can either vote for the far right candidate, or you can vote for the center right one. That’s it. Those are the choices. We can sit here and make these absolutely garbage people the focus of our entire discussion and move the needle nowhere, despite knowing exactly how this is going to play out, or we can make it moot and focus on organizing while not wasting time talking about filling a circle in on a piece of paper while patting ourselves on the back. In the scheme of things the working class can do, that is the bare minimum.

I don’t give a shit about any of these candidates. All I know is that one is committing genocide and the other is a boomer criminal that employs a bunch of family members and other sycophants, who would also commit the same genocide if given the chance. Because thats what the ruling class beast demands and nothing stops it. People make voting into a bigger thing than they do organizing and educating. Bide your time. Vote if you want or don’t. Scolding people is a waste of time and it’s divisive. It continues the divide that the ruling class wants because they know it’s one of the key factors that prevent the working class from uniting as one. We have the numbers. The fucking Ants movie tried to tell us.

The reality is that if we want real, actual change, it’s going to require us to get out of that comfort zone where we fill in a little circle with a pen and then act like we moved mountains. That right there is privileged lib shit. Your vote isn’t going to mean fuck all when we’ve witnessed the candidates change for years, while war and genocide continued under all of them; while the police state thrived under all of them; while trans and women’s reproductive rights were taken away or hindered under all of them.

These are the times when I wish Fred Hampton was still alive.

[-] archomrade@midwest.social 20 points 9 months ago

What kills me about posts like this is that they paint leftist activism in a way that's indistinguishable from christian evangelicalism.

  • Serves the poor by working at homeless shelters
  • protests un-threateningly against opposition
  • participates in book clubs and peer groups
  • otherwise fully participates in a system that's hostile toward their existence

Libs like this forget that the civil rights leaders they model themselves after were intentionally inflammatory -sometimes violently so- so that the people who were refusing to negotiate with them would be forced to do so at risk of material harm to their interests. All these people downvoting you would rather protests be silent and non-invasive than be loud or -god forbid- threaten the power structure they comfortably benefit from.

MLK and Fred Hampton are looked at so favorably in hindsight because they forced the liberal structures at the time to concede some minimum amount of liberty to those who were actively under threat. They weren't targeting conservative fascists with their protests (they knew better than to think they would ever change their minds), they were targeting those centrists who thought themselves allys but stopped short of action because they themselves were not materially threatened by the systemic injustices being faced by the black community at the time, and they didn't want to risk harm to their own position in order to solve it. Protests were a way to hold hostage their interest in exchange for addressing the interests of black americans.

To quote MLK from his letter from birmingham:

You may well ask: “Why direct action? Why sit ins, marches and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?” You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood.

The purpose of our direct action program is to create a situation so crisis packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation. Too long has our beloved Southland been bogged down in a tragic effort to live in monologue rather than dialogue.

One of the basic points in your statement is that the action that I and my associates have taken in Birmingham is untimely. Some have asked: “Why didn’t you give the new city administration time to act?” The only answer that I can give to this query is that the new Birmingham administration must be prodded about as much as the outgoing one, before it will act. We are sadly mistaken if we feel that the election of Albert Boutwell as mayor will bring the millennium to Birmingham. While Mr. Boutwell is a much more gentle person than Mr. Connor, they are both segregationists, dedicated to maintenance of the status quo. I have hope that Mr. Boutwell will be reasonable enough to see the futility of massive resistance to desegregation. But he will not see this without pressure from devotees of civil rights. My friends, I must say to you that we have not made a single gain in civil rights without determined legal and nonviolent pressure. Lamentably, it is an historical fact that privileged groups seldom give up their privileges voluntarily. Individuals may see the moral light and voluntarily give up their unjust posture; but, as Reinhold Niebuhr has reminded us, groups tend to be more immoral than individuals.

MLK might as well have been comparing Biden and Trump with regards to their shared zionism. Biden deserves no less pressure to negotiate just because he is a "more gentle" person.

[-] slouching_employer@lemmy.one 13 points 9 months ago

And the other classic MLK quote about “the white moderate”:

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice [...]

[-] archomrade@midwest.social 8 points 9 months ago

Right. And this quote and his frustration is in direct response to criticisms from white moderates that his (peaceful) methods are too loud and inconvenient and his timing too inopportune, rather than responding to the movement's plea for basic human liberty.

[-] fishos@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago

Thank you for writing all of this out. It needs to be said more. We're not going to break the system constantly acquiescing to a rigged system.

[-] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 10 points 9 months ago

I'm happy to do it. I know I have some unpopular opinions, but part of breaking the cycle is getting uncomfortable.

We need to collectively realize that the ruling class will never let things deviate too far out of their control. I'm definitely not saying one shouldn't vote (you should; it's easy and the least you can do), but we need to stop hinging so much on it. We've been doing the "lesser of two evils" thing for what feels like an eternity. It's tired and we need to move beyond it because it's a divisive key set piece in the arsenal of the ruling class. The division is the intent. If we keep arguing over which old white guy in a suit is worse, we're spinning our wheels in the mud.

We're talking about a government that has been swaying people's minds and overthrowing governments in other countries for decades. They absolutely do use the same exact tactics on the working class in the US and it would be naive to think they don't. Everyone is affected by propaganda. That's a big reason the TikTok ban immediately received 81% approval, when other things like basic human rights get little to no traction. And it's not some thing that happens in the span of 5 years; it's a long, arduous process that requires a ton of moving pieces and has multiple benefits for the ruling class.

Vote or don't vote. All that matters is remembering that the working class collective is stronger as one unit. That kind of unification and the numbers behind it are what truly strike fear into a fascist government.

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[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 7 points 9 months ago

i agree. thank you for this analysis.

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