Nope. Children are not able to provide informed consent and thus cannot enter into contracts to sell their labor. Beyond that, there is a wealth of data demonstrating negative outcomes related to child labor, including educational underperformance, increased incidence of poverty, abuse, and crime, as well as the potential of workplace injuries to cause permanent developmental impairment.
There is no such thing as ethical child labor.
I tend to agree, but what about making a child do chores in a family household? Most children don't want to do it and some don't get anything in return, the tasks can sometimes be grueling. Would that always be unethical, or only when taken to an excessive degree that severely impacts the child?
Chores are different in that the purpose is training them to be self sufficient adults. Once it deviates from that purpose, it becomes abusive.
This is likely related to why kids can work in a family owned business to various extents. At least in the US. Not sure about elsewhere.
The problem is that once you make it available for anybody, it becomes a societal pressure and children won't be given a choice since they can't make their own decisions for what they do. Hell, how many of us were 'forced' to get a summer job as a teenager by our parents?
In Germany children are obligated to help their parents in the household as long as they live with them. This extends to family business. By law the children have no right to be compensated, since they are already compensated by the parents feeding and housing them. Of course, this doesn't mean parents can just slave their children, there are plenty of health and security laws and what's generally reasonable for a child of varous ages to do.
So no family sweat shop. but the bottom line is: in Germany kids are obligated to help out the household they live with.
It isn't commercial labor when an adult does their own chores (I think), as it's more related to the people in a household maintaining their own home. It likely wouldn't be labor for a child for the same reasons, though I'm not sure.
But it could start to look like labor when it's something that produces commercial value, for example, it's more like a 'chore' to water the vegetable garden in the backyard, but it's more like 'labor' to tend to 20 acres of farmland.
Excessive chores, though, could be prevented under child abuse law rather than child labor law, depending on how it's enforced. Doing all the household work voluntarily for no reason other than it's fun? Almost certainly legal. No video games until you clean the dishes? Probably legal. No food until you sweep, mop, dust, and shine every surface in the house? Probably abuse.
Chores are largely part of childhood education. Humans need to be able to do things that they may not find fun to both to survive as functional adults and function as a part of society. They also help to teach responsibility and contribution to larger things than themselves, whether a family unit or society at large.
That is allowed. Kids are allowed to do small jobs outside school hours, paper rounds, dog walking, babysitting, all fine jobs for teens.
A full time job that denies them an education is exploitative.
Labor: No. Consent doesn't matter.
Doing jobs / working as a kid is perfectly alright if it contributes to their education, teaches them skills for life or helps them learn how to become an independent individual. But within limits. They also need time to grow, have fun and go to school.
Other than that, children will consensually work if the alternative is seeing their little sister starve. Help contribute to the family income or happily skip school if able. Under a certain age, children are regarded as not very wise, unable to consent and easily manipulable. For example by cruel or stupid parents.
That is why it needs to be banned to a certain (and arguable) age. Instead, the state/society needs to provide for poor children, and protect them. Sometimes even from their parents and themselves. Until they're grown enough to make their own decisions.
Other than that, children will consensually work if the alternative is seeing their little sister starve
I'm not sure I would call that "consent." It's coercion.
Consent aside, it will never be acceptable in a place where there's free education, since educating a child is almost guaranteed to increase their quality of life and production in society
We have decided as a nation that children under a certain age are incapable of consenting to anything.
How do you know you're from the same nation as OP?
We can't even trust employers to not steal wages, sexually harass, or be decent humans to adult workers. There's no way a literal child should be expected to hold their own in an employee/employer relationship.
Consentually...... Sounds like a great way for a corporation to groom individuals into people who accept less than a liveable wage.
I don't see anything that helps capitalism being done "responsibly". It's all done in the pursuit of all the money, and as soon as possible. Only rule is don't break laws that have consequences higher than the profits gained.
Children should be children. They shouldn't need to earn an income. Education and fun should be a priority. Have the rest of their lives to be miserable
Being imprisoned in school in name of education is already miserable though
I moved out at 14, so I'm gonna go with yes, but I'll caveat that I got a pretty heavy bias on the issue :)
I will say that parental consent is a shit answer. The kids capable of working consensually likely won't need it.
Isn't 14 already a legal age to work (though admittedly some caveats)?
Edit: in the US at least.
Bait, lmao. Why do you keep wasting everyones time?
What do you have in mind?
Yes, when it's the product of apprenticeship, where there is a clear gain, without loss in other areas of education. As to the amount of time it takes from childhood, the matter is less clear, as it is within societies that permit cram schools. But if you allow one, then you can allow the other.
Children are stupid and can't consent. They should focus on education instead of work.
Stop trying to turn lemmy into reddit
Weird take. Stop trying to make reddit out to be unique in any fashion. There are no unique things to the type of people on reddit or to what would be done on reddit. It was a bunch of people (and bots). People are people.
What do you mean by that?
The only people who in 2023 goes online and asks ridiculous questions like "is child labor really that bad" are epic redditeurs.
I've got some bad news for you: that's the entire internet. Maybe if you were familiar with more than just Reddit, you'd know that. 🤷♂️
”What if the children consent tho” has historically been a very popular question with redditors.
Child should get education and not work. The government should support financially families so kids and student don't need to work
I suppose I'd call one form of that "household chores"
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