The ‘Absolute Right’ To Commit War Crimes? Gaza, Israel And Labour ‘Opposition’ (www.medialens.org)

submitted 1 year ago by TokenBoomer@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

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[-] jet@hackertalks.com 33 points 1 year ago

Good writeup talking about biases.

The BBC reported in its usual ‘impartial’ way that people were ‘killed’ in Israel while in Gaza, Palestinians merely ‘died’. BBC News described intense Israeli bombing as ‘retaliatory air strikes’, conforming to the approved ideology that Israel only ever responds to violence, and never instigates it.

Ooph.... that was subtle, i never noticed.

[-] sndmn@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I sure notice what goes unsaid when you hear "Israel has the right to defend itself!"

How about the other obvious meaning? "Palestine doesn't have the right to defend itself."

[+] anteaters@feddit.de -23 points 1 year ago

TIL firing rockets aimlessly at Israel to hit whatever just to spread terror and murder people is "defend itself". The "Free Palestine" bunch on Lemmy has completely lost it.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 15 points 1 year ago

The problem with the current dialogue, is people, like you just did, put ridiculous strawmans out there.

Right now the people of the Gaza strip are being bombed everyday, civilians are dying, yes civilians. Unless you consider every person the Gaza strip in the enemy combatant, civilians are dying. If every person on the planet has the right to defend themselves, how do you propose people in the Gaza strip defend themselves now?

And if you say they should control themselves to not provoke Israel, fine, but now you're saying collective punishment of an entire society is okay. And if collective punishment is okay, that means Israel is also responsible for its bad actors.

You can take whatever stance you like, but you have to treat both sides by the same metric. You can't be selective about who gets what responsibilities, everyone in these stories are human beings, everyone's just trying to live a good life.

[-] anteaters@feddit.de -4 points 1 year ago

No, the problem with the dialogue is people like you who claim absolute nonsense. The people of Gaza are bombed right now because Hamas hides behind them. Those who never supported Hamas and their actions are now trapped in with them because no one ever cared about them being taken hostage by Hamas. Now that Israel has enough and is going to destroy Hamas everyone suddenly cares about all the innocent people in Gaza.

The people who want nothing to do with Hamas are apparently not in any position to do anything about the terrorists who have Gaza in their grip. They should have been allowed to leave for the past years because as long as Hamas is in control Gaza is a lost cause. Want to blame someone? Blame Hamas, their supportes and all those who could have helped Gaza get rid of them but stood idly by for decades, happy that one in a while Hamas will launch a terrorist attack on Israel to draw fire on Gaza.

[-] Marsupial@quokk.au 6 points 1 year ago

Gaza was bombed before Hamas and Gaza continues to be bombed after Israel created Hamas.

Hamas is not the issue, Israel is and will continue to be.

[-] anteaters@feddit.de -4 points 1 year ago

Israel created Hamas.

As long as people tell themselves fairy tales to blame Israel the conflict will continue.

[-] Marsupial@quokk.au 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

As long as people continue to ignore history, the Israel’s genocide will continue.

[-] Riccosuave@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

What a stupid fucking thing to say. You want to absolve Israel of its responsibility with the same ignorant simplifications that you believe people with oppositional viewpoints are using.

I don't get people who can clearly pick out what they perceive to be bullshit from the "other camp" yet use the same stupid fucking justifications to support their own ignorance and tribalism.

[-] YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

There is plenty of blame to go around. Israel's mistreatment of Gaza, Hamas violence toward Israel, Iran arming terrorists, the United States focusing on culture war and allowing a humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

The problem is that the two sides are pointlessly fighting each other over something started hundreds of years ago.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I blame Hamas. 100%.

People in Gaza are dying today. How do we get people to stop dying today?

The civilians in Gaza, the children in Gaza, the women in Gaza, the people in Gaza are not allowed to leave. There is no escape for the civilians.

How do we exit this situation right now?

There is a power asymmetry here, Hamas is a terrorist organization, they're terrible people, but they do not have the military advantage. Hamas has the moral low ground, they do terrible things. Israel has the military high ground, they can decide who lives and who dies. Right now the civilians in Gaza are dying.

How do we stop this today?

If you kill everybody who is part of Hamas today, it's not going to end the violence. We're stuck in a systematic cycle of violence. Unless you're willing to kill every Palestinian person, you have to deal with them as human beings if you want to end the violence.

[-] anteaters@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

The only way to stop the bombing quickly I can imagine: a trustworthy 3rd party brokers a deal between Israel and Hamas. A deal that includes the hostages, disarmament of Hamas & Gaza and the surrender of Hamas personnel.

"We" cannot do anything in that matter, though.

If you kill everybody who is part of Hamas today, it’s not going to end the violence. We’re stuck in a systematic cycle of violence. Unless you’re willing to kill every Palestinian person, you have to deal with them as human beings if you want to end the violence.

This might unfortunately be true - especially after seeing the videos of how the terrorists tortured and murdered families in their homes. After Israel thinks Hamas do be destroyed / weakened enough it will result in a complete blockade from Israel's side that nothing will get through. It's on Egypt then, to keep the inhabitants of Gaza alive.

It might be for the better to 100% separate Palestina and Israel for some time so things can cool down and relations can be rebuild. As long as one side has the complete destruction of the other as its goal, talks are destined to go nowhere.

[-] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I learned on this platform today that you are not allowed to say it’s a war crime until the ICC says it’s a war crime. So you could just get away with war crimes if you don’t sign the Rome Statute and don’t let ICC investigators into Gaza*.

Hypothetically speaking of course.

*) interestingly enough the Palestinian State, although not universally recognized, is a signatory. Technically the ICC has jurisdiction since they claim Gaza as part of their territory. It’s going to be interesting to see how that is going to unfold.

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Just lie and say your a lawyer with the ICC and watch‘em squirm.

[-] YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago

Yes, Media Lens is a right-wing source designed to give the other side a voice.

this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2023

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