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submitted 10 months ago by jaykay@lemmy.zip to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

Hi everyone! Since I was absolutely fucked by Skiff (thank fuck I didn’t pay for it) I’m looking for a new email provider :) I’m not sure I like how proton is transforming into a full on suit, I only need email. Any other recommendations or is proton my only choice really?

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[-] darkmatternoodlecow@programming.dev 55 points 10 months ago

A provider having more than 50 users and offering more than one service doesn't make them evil. Use Proton. They are the best, and they're not likely to disappear. If you intentionally seek out small services because you think being an underdog is some sort of privacy merit badge, you'll get "absolutely fucked" over and over again.

Also, you should consider paying for the products you use to encourage sane and user-friendly business models. But that's a different discussion altogether.

[-] jaykay@lemmy.zip 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It’s not about “using an underdog”, I just like “do one thing and do it well” philosophy you know. I don’t need drives, calendars, vpn, password manager, in one thing. I want a simple email provider that’s it.

Yeah skiff wasn’t like that but it seemed not too push it as much, just “hey it’s there you can use it” not full on products. Maybe I’m just being stupid about it idk

[-] Atemu@lemmy.ml 22 points 10 months ago

You can simply ignore all of these other features. Proton offers an email-only plan.

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[-] TCB13@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

Proton = No SMTP/IMAP support.

[-] Tinnitus@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

You can use Proton Mail Bridge to set up SMTP/IMAP with your email app of choice. Obviously, you’re still stuck with using the bridge app on your device in order to get it working.

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[-] bugsmith@programming.dev 30 points 10 months ago

Another vote here for Fastmail. I also like Posteo, Mailbox and mxroute, but these are not as fully featured - which may be perfect for you if you're after email only. What I really like about Fastmail is that on top of being a customer-focused business (rather than a customer is the product business), they offer a really snappy web interface with excellent search - and they are extremely compliant with email standards, building everything on JMAP.

I do not like Proton or Tutanota. I have used both, including using Proton as my main email account for the past two years. I do believe they are probably the best when it comes to encryption and privacy standards, but for me it's at far too much cost. Encrypted email is almost pointless - the moment you email someone who isn't using a Proton (or PGP encryption), then the encryption is lost. Or even if they just forward an email to someone outside your chain. I would argue that if you need to send a message to someone with enough sensitivity to require this level of encryption, email is the wrong choice of protocol.

For all that Proton offer, it results in broken email standard compliance, awful search capability and reliance on bridge software or being limited to their WebUI and apps. And it's a shame, because I really like the company and their mission.

[-] thegreekgeek@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago

Don't even need proton for that, just use delta chat.

[-] solrize@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago

I'm happy with fastmail. Remember that must people you email are probably on Google (Gmail) so there is only so much you can accomplish in terms of email privacy whatever you do.

[-] banazir@lemmy.ml 15 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Check out Posteo. It's affordable and focuses on privacy.

[-] Kissaki@feddit.de 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I've been using Posteo for years. I can recommend.

[-] totallynotarobot@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

What's your objection to Proton? You don't have to use any of the other products, and the free tier is perfectly usable last I checked (granted many years ago). Not sure what your concern is

Edit: downvoting without replying doesn't tell us what the concern is. Y'all weird

[-] lemmyreader@lemmy.ml 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Posteo, mailbox.org, Tuta.

[-] WeLoveCastingSpellz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 10 months ago

I 💜 Protonmail. I generally like proton as a company.This video has really gained my trust for them as a privacy focussed services provider.

[-] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 4 points 10 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

This video

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

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[-] muix@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 10 months ago

Let me recommend Migadu, as email privacy is kind of a difficult topic. They offer complete email freedom for a very reasonable price; $20 ($10 for students) a year. They explain my main reasoning why I would avoid Proton:

When an email provider rations email address of your own domain name-space at a fee, they are asking you to hand them over control of your name-space. There is zero cost associated with additional email addresses and it is time you learn about it.

When email provider does not offer you standard email protocols that work with standard email clients, they want to lock you in for good. You are tied to using the dedicated applications offered by provider. The freedom of using a better or more suitable application is taken away from you. Protocols were standardized for a reason and today there are hundreds of email clients built for users with different needs.

When email provider alters messages data in non-standard format, they deny you data portability and with it freedom of changing providers.

Email is a collective effort of messaging interoperability. It is built around open, public standards and runs mostly on open source software maintained by folks believing in an open Internet, privacy and personal freedoms. Let’s not give away our freedoms for some Kool-Aid.

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[-] Confound4082@lemmy.ml 9 points 10 months ago

Plus one for Proton, I don't use their password manager, but their other products I've been using and been pleased with. I consider it well worth the cost.

[-] PoliticalCustard@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 10 months ago

Tuta, I've had an account with them for years. Since the end of 2023 Proton Mail dropped off my list because of its funding for Bellingcat.

https://propagandainfocus.com/proton-mail-imperialist-stooge/

Proton, known for its privacy-centric email service Proton Mail, announced at the end of 2023 that it would help raise money for controversial group Bellingcat, a documented proxy British intelligence operation, through its annual Lifetime Account Charity Fundraiser.

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[-] catculation@lemmy.zip 8 points 10 months ago

I recently switched to skiff from proton as the skiff's free tier is offering what proton's mail plus plan. And now they are shutting down their services.

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[-] Oha@lemmy.ohaa.xyz 7 points 10 months ago

Been using Tuta for a few years and its great. Can use catch-all with my own Domain

[-] jeena@jemmy.jeena.net 7 points 10 months ago

I found http://mxroute.com/ they offer sane prices for unlimited emails and domains. I'm in the middle of switching to them.

[-] flathead@lemm.ee 7 points 10 months ago

Linux, dovecot, postfix and a large quantity of pain medication.

[-] Imprint9816@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 10 months ago

Proton, Tuta, or mailbox.org are good choices.

[-] Engywuck@lemm.ee 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

In my humble opinion, unless you use your account only to receive emails but also to send them, your provider has limited effect on your privacy. That's why I personally don't have a use for Tuta, Proton and other similar, super private services (mind you, I'm not saying they aren't good). That said, I've been a happy customer of mailbox.org for quite a few years and I found them reliable and cheap (if you don't need a custom domain). Same for Posteo, I guess. At the moment, I'm a paying customer for Zoho email, with quite a few custom domains abd I'm fairly happy. They have a free tier as well and their privacy policy looks good to me.

[-] Ohh@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago

My 2 ¢: Email is inherently not private. With tls you have encryption in transit, but as soon as the data hits the server no metadata is ever encrypted. With pgp you can encrypt the message content, sure, but not with many of the advanced features we expect from e.g. Signal and matrix. Therefore it doesn't really matter if you use proton ot tuta, unless you exclusively mail other proton/tuta users.

I am extremely happy with purelymail.com. extremely cheap and versatile. I also use mailfence.com but that's only because i'd like to have two different servers for something as important as mail. Been a customer with purely for probably 3+ years . Mailfence probably 6+ years. Have seen two small outages with mailfence. None with purely.

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[-] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

If you don't need anonymity you could just buy a domain with a single email and use your own email app SMTP. I think it's cheaper than most email providers.

[-] ONRYO@feddit.ch 4 points 10 months ago

I know you are not interested in proton but they are the absolute best and you possibly cannot get anything better than their services on the privacy and security end (which they are focused on).

[-] grillgamesh0028@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

+1 for proton!

I've been using it for years, they've never let me down!

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[-] TCB13@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Proton = No SMTP/IMAP support.

[-] InterSynth@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 10 months ago

How would they be privacy-centric if they supported SMTP and IMAP?

[-] TCB13@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Both support encryption and Lavabit probably had much higher standards than Proton when it comes to privacy and still supported those open protocols. What Proton is doing is pushing for vendor lock-in at any possible point so you're stuck with what they deem acceptable because it's easier for them to build a service this way and makes more sense from a business / customer retention perspective.

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[-] eramseth@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago
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[-] scratchandgame@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago

There isn't. Self hosting is the only way you can send email without giving your data. All email provider have your data, assuming there is a provider that is private is lying yourself. Even if they have some kilograms of privacy policy.

[-] Swarfega@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago

Regardless of who you choose. Use an aliasing service. It makes moving to a new provider/email address a breeze on the future. It took me days to go around updating all my 200 sites online. If I ever move from proton it will take me 5 minutes to ensure all my sites now go to my new provider.

My only tip would be to create a new domain rather than using a shared one. This will prevent some sites from blocking you from using an alias.

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this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
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