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[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 195 points 2 months ago
[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 117 points 2 months ago

No, that's not the best Gadsden flag parody. Far from it. Here's some better ones:

[-] Zedd00@lemmy.dbzer0.com 55 points 2 months ago
[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

Thanks, those are great too! 😁

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[-] SyntaxTerror@feddit.org 10 points 2 months ago

As a European I see these for the first time, where do they come from? Usually I see eagles, donkeys and elephants with US stuff

[-] thisNotMyName@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago
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[-] Nougat@fedia.io 77 points 2 months ago

Libertarian? Isn't that just Conservative with extra steps?

[-] pennomi@lemmy.world 80 points 2 months ago

No, in theory libertarians are pro-choice, pro-LGBT, pro-drugs, pro-open borders.

Not saying that American Libertarians believe those things, but libertarianism specifically supports things that are non-conservative social issues.

[-] Nougat@fedia.io 25 points 2 months ago
[-] pennomi@lemmy.world 37 points 2 months ago

Outside of the US, yes, there are real libertarians.

American Libertarian policies from that article:

Its cultural policy positions include ending the prohibition of illegal drugs, advocating criminal justice reform,[14] supporting same-sex marriage, ending capital punishment, and supporting gun ownership rights.

Conservatives have over the last couple years taken to labeling themselves as Libertarian to avoid the stigma of being Republican, but have never actually voted for a libertarian.

[-] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 26 points 2 months ago

The problem being that they're also fully in favour of allowing businesses to do whatever the fuck they want. Even an ideologically "pure" libertarian would support your right to gay marriage while also supporting the right of your landlord to kick you out onto the street for being gay. They'll support legalization of all drugs, but also support your workplace being allowed to fire you for posting about weed on your social media.

Paying lip service to socially progressive ideas is meaningless if you also want to institute a neofeudalist society where every freedom is only really afforded to the wealthy.

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[-] Nougat@fedia.io 20 points 2 months ago

Full disclosure, let's not pretend that Libertarians are any good, even if they are in favor of some good things.

We should eliminate the entire social welfare system. This includes eliminating food stamps, subsidized housing, and all the rest. Individuals who are unable to fully support themselves and their families through the job market must, once again, learn to rely on supportive family, church, community, or private charity to bridge the gap.

The party supports ending the public school system.[161] The party's official platform states that education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality, accountability and efficiency with more diversity of school choice.

The party also contends that free markets and property rights (implicitly without government intervention) will stimulate the technological innovations and behavioral changes required to protect the environment and ecosystem because environmental advocates and social pressure are the most effective means of changing public behavior.

The Libertarian Party opposes all government intervention and regulation on wages, prices, rents, profits, production and interest rates and advocates the repeal of all laws banning or restricting the advertising of prices, products, or services.

The Libertarian Party favors a free market health care system without government oversight, approval, regulation, or licensing. The party states that it "recognizes the freedom of individuals to determine the level of health insurance they want, the level of health care they want, the care providers they want, the medicines and treatments they will use and all other aspects of their medical care, including end-of-life decisions." They support the repeal of all social insurance policies such as Medicare and Medicaid and favor "consumer-driven health care".

The party supports the right of free persons to associate or not associate in labor unions and believes that employers should have the right to recognize or refuse to recognize a union.

[-] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

The party supports the right of free persons to associate or not associate in labor unions and believes that employers should have the right to recognize or refuse to recognize a union.

If the company can simply ignore a union, then the union has zero power...

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[-] WldFyre@lemm.ee 24 points 2 months ago

Those "classically libertarian" values are referred to as "liberal" values today

[-] dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net 15 points 2 months ago

Classical libertarians (like from the early 20th century) would be considered anarchists in today’s parlance (specifically anarcho-communists or anarcho-syndicalists)

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[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

ah yes my "classically libertarian" brothers vote red up and down ballot. they claim to have those values so they don't get the hose when they visit

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[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago

Libertarians, at least in the US, are all about being selfish. "why should I pay taxes to fund schools, I don't have kids" types. It's all "me, me, me."

Insufferable wankers.

Republicans are like that too but they also enjoy telling everyone else what they should be doing. They want to control other people's access to healthcare, punish them for being the "wrong" faith, sexuality, race, etc.

[-] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 10 points 2 months ago

More like conservatives who like weed.

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[-] GuyDudeman@lemmy.world 66 points 2 months ago

That’s been happening for decades. Libertarians have only ever existed because the Republicans used to be tacitly against racism.

[-] VerbFlow@lemmy.world 65 points 2 months ago
[-] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 13 points 2 months ago

Mongoose! Even better!

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[-] Raiderkev@lemmy.world 58 points 2 months ago

My personal favorite:

[-] Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world 44 points 2 months ago

There is no masquerading. Libertarians are just cons/repubs without the religion who smoke weed

[-] MyPornViewingAccount@lemmy.world 39 points 2 months ago

Libertarians are just republicans with a better working knowledge of local age of consent laws.

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[-] underisk@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 months ago

Politics have been irreparably poisoned by that political compass bullshit.

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[-] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 39 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

What's clear is that the Right-wing's whole thing doesn't exactly attract (good) artists. They tend to borrow and steal most of their iconography rather than make something new^1^. Strangely, the whole movement also seems to be both unable to execute parody nor see the humor in self-parody, which I assert is a faculty needed to pull off good political art.

So that puts some serious creative power in league with everyone else. Should be interesting.

^1^ - MAGA is a great example of this. The slogan itself is lifted from Reagan's 1980 campaign, so it's nothing new. The current slogan marketing "design" is nothing more than a white serif font on a red field, which in highly-technical graphic design terms is called: "lazy as fuck."

[-] abbotsbury@lemmy.world 34 points 2 months ago

The slogan itself is lifted from Reagan’s 1980 campaign, so it’s nothing new

...Which in turn lifted it from the National Front's "Make Britain Great Again," which is the last time it was actually clever wordplay.

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[-] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 36 points 2 months ago
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[-] WatDabney@fedia.io 35 points 2 months ago

Actually, that's been the case for just about exactly 16 years. I watched it happen in real time.

I went through a libertarian phase in the 80s and 90s, mostly because I couldn't reconcile my anarchist sensibilities with the fact that humanity just isn't ready to do entirely without authority. I eventually just gave in and shifted to anarchism, since it's really the only position that's consistent with my principles, and I just treat it as more of an ideal toward which to strive than an actual immediate goal.

In any event, I knew the libertarian movement of the era. It was more right- than left-wing even then, but it was primarily libertarian, exactly as the term implies - primarily focused just on minimizing political authority.

Then came the Tea Party.

The first Tea Party protests were organized by actual libertarians and were specifically against the Wall Street bailouts in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis that Wall Street had essentially single-handedly caused. And notably, they were against the Bush administration.

But then, shortly after Obama's victory, with a suspiciously well-timed and widespread boost fron the legacy media reporting on an even more suspiciously well-timed on-air comment by Jim Cramer, the Tea Party was recast into a Republican protest against the left. And it almost immediately transformed from a series of protests against the Wall Street bailouts to a traveling right-wing carnival of hate. (And conveniently enough, the focus on the Wall Street bailouts completely vanished).

While I saw that happen I didn't recognize the near-immediate Overton Window shift it triggered until I noticed a sudden influx of libertarians on anarchist forums. And they all had the same story - they had abandoned their libertarian forums because they had been taken over by angry, stupid Republicans.

And that became the status quo. The former libertarians mostly settled into their own sub-community of "anarcho-capitalists" and the libertarian movement is now pretty much just angry, stupid Republicans who are only marked out by the fact that they lean more into corporatocracy and militarism than religious fundamentalism and social war.

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[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 33 points 2 months ago
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[-] thisNotMyName@lemmy.world 32 points 2 months ago
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[-] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 25 points 2 months ago
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[-] Cruxifux@feddit.nl 15 points 2 months ago

Realizing that libertarians were just conservatives lampung as anti establishment was a sad realization.

[-] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 months ago

But libertarians are conservative. They just also like weed and bitcoin

[-] zeroday@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 2 months ago

A similar shitty Gadsden flag parody was in a protest flyer I saw recently -

[-] megabat@lemm.ee 12 points 2 months ago

It's interesting that conservatives would try to masquerade as libertarians, considering that conservatives are the one that want to and have tread all over our rights. Hopefully nobody is falling for it. They are essentially the antithesis of liberty and freedom; see voting, abortion, lgbtq rights, and on and on and on...

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[-] Neurologist@mander.xyz 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

r/libertarian was mildly pro-Biden 4 years ago. I guess the astroturfing and corpofication of reddit have taken their toll.

[-] dadrad@midwest.social 11 points 2 months ago
[-] lugal@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago
[-] narp@feddit.org 19 points 2 months ago

It's a typo. The original "Don't tread on me" Flag is called the "Gadsden Flag".

Maybe you were joking, I didn't know this and I think it's pretty funny how well the typo fits!

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this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2024
684 points (96.0% liked)

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