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cross-posted from: https://feddit.nl/post/16246531

I feel like we need to talk about Lemmy's massive tankie censorship problem. A lot of popular lemmy communities are hosted on lemmy.ml. It's been well known for a while that the admins/mods of that instance have, let's say, rather extremist and onesided political views. In short, they're what's colloquially referred to as tankies. This wouldn't be much of an issue if they didn't regularly abuse their admin/mod status to censor and silence people who dissent with their political beliefs and for example, post things critical of China, Russia, the USSR, socialism, ...

As an example, there was a thread today about the anniversary of the Tiananmen Massacre. When I was reading it, there were mostly posts critical of China in the thread and some whataboutist/denialist replies critical of the USA and the west. In terms of votes, the posts critical of China were definitely getting the most support.

I posted a comment in this thread linking to "https://archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://imgur.com/a/AIIbbPs" (WARNING: graphical content), which describes aspects of the atrocities that aren't widely known even in the West, and supporting evidence. My comment was promptly removed for violating the "Be nice and civil" rule. When I looked back at the thread, I noticed that all posts critical of China had been removed while the whataboutist and denialist comments were left in place.

This is what the modlog of the instance looks like:

Definitely a trend there wouldn't you say?

When I called them out on their one sided censorship, with a screenshot of the modlog above, I promptly received a community ban on all communities on lemmy.ml that I had ever participated in.

Proof:

So many of you will now probably think something like: "So what, it's the fediverse, you can use another instance."

The problem with this reasoning is that many of the popular communities are actually on lemmy.ml, and they're not so easy to replace. I mean, in terms of content and engagement lemmy is already a pretty small place as it is. So it's rather pointless sitting for example in /c/linux@some.random.other.instance.world where there's nobody to discuss anything with.

I'm not sure if there's a solution here, but I'd like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

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[-] muculent@lemmy.world 7 points 13 hours ago

These are just my thoughts based on what I've read so far. Do what you will with it. This is just my general advice.

If you like a community on an instance, make friends on it. If you network with enough individuals that feel the same way about a community that you do, fork that community onto a new instance and carry on. I see others weighing in on too much control, not enough control, defederate, remove moderator or admin control from individuals that censor, ban, on lean one direction over another. You'll find these power dynamics are more prevalent or less prevalent depending on the instance you're on or communities your partipate in. If you feel strongly enough about it, be the change you want to see and determine what best course of action you should take that is within your power. Whatever you choose I hope you find or potentially create a community or instance that works best for you.

[-] Dasus@lemmy.world 23 points 17 hours ago

One of the mods over there is a Russian who refuses to answer whether he's pro-Russian or not, says Russian propaganda doesn't exist, pretends to be American while intensely engaging in American threads, denies Uighur genocide, etc etc etc.

https://lemmy.world/u/davel@lemmy.ml

https://lemmygrad.ml/u/davel

He has some older account where there was Russian being used but I think he may have deleted it or I just can't be arsed to look enough rn.

Anyway, one of the clearest pro-Russian trolls I've seen. Lemmy.ml is full of them, I don't know why lemmy.world federates with them.

[-] Rhoeri@lemmy.world 3 points 12 hours ago

Knew exactly who you were taking about before I even saw the links.

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[-] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 20 points 18 hours ago

My post criticizing China's high-speed rail network was yanked. I was surprised and immediately thought of Reddit.

[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 4 points 13 hours ago

Same. Their SCS incursion and claiming it as their own.

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[-] secret300@lemmy.sdf.org 33 points 21 hours ago
[-] EatATaco@lemm.ee 15 points 17 hours ago

Read the post?

[-] OpenStars@discuss.online 11 points 20 hours ago

Genuine question: HOW though?!? I've user-blocked the entire instance, yet I see those comments basically everywhere I go, plus they used to not be able to reply to me and have a notification sent to me, but now on 0.19.5 that seems to have been un-done. In no way is a user-block like a personal defederation.

Also, fully 100% (not making this up) of everyone that I have told Lemmy about irl has said that this issue is why they refused to join the Fediverse. As the number of alt accounts goes up (some of them mine) yet the total number remains mostly constant, that spells doom for us eventually.

And it is not fair to the users of lemmy.ml either, for the rest of us to see the instance they come from and immediately brace ourselves for an onslaught - thereby potentially misinterpreting what they say, just b/c their fellows are so arrogant and insensitive and we have come to expect that from them.

The whole "just ignore the cancer and it will go away" approach leaves much to be desired, imho. Feel free to do as you please, but that's not what I am talking about: you asked, and as a result now you know some (certainly not all) of the reasons why others may not wish to do the same.

[-] socsa@piefed.social 50 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

Honestly I think the .ml folks have shown themselves to be such zealots that they should be considered a potential security threat to the broader fediverse.

The more places defederate from them, the more opportunity and initiative there will be for alternatives to their largest communities to grow.

[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 21 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

One of the problems is that Lemmy.ml is literally run by some of the people who developed Lemmy and it's one of the few instances on https://join-lemmy.org/instances and the one with the highest number of users listed there with the exception of lemmynsfw.

[-] imaqtpie@lemmy.myserv.one 17 points 17 hours ago

It also has less users than sh.itjust.works and lemm.ee. And way less compared to lemmy.world but I guess they aren't linked on the joinlemmy site for some reason

[-] WanderingVentra@lemm.ee 3 points 12 hours ago

It was removed from it to avoid over centralization on the fediverse. It already has like 80% of users

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[-] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world 30 points 23 hours ago

“So what, it’s the fediverse, you can use another instance.”

Dismissal of this type of criticism by just telling people to use another instance or saying "fediverse is decentralized" is unproductive, and honestly should be called out as harmful because it ignores the fact that instances when they become large enough and centralized enough, carry weight and can be extremely problematic like shown here.

A big part of dealing with these types of problems is to make people aware of them, another one is to deal with it at the instance level by defederating the problematic instances and cutting off the communities so that network effect doesn't continue to rear its ugly head. Just creating new communities isn't enough, if it was this wouldn't be the problem that it is. When people tell others to stop complaining and dismiss the criticism because the fediverse is decentralized it seems like they either don't understand the issue, or they would just rather it not be addressed.

So while many people would prefer we just leave well enough alone, that's not condusive to these problems being dealt with, people need to talk about them, and action needs to be taken.

[-] fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee 73 points 1 day ago

I wonder how many good, reasonable people have checked out Lemmy and seen all the CCP/Kremlin propaganda then just left.

[-] maxenmajs@lemmy.world 36 points 1 day ago

I was close to leaving. At first I'd been given the impression that "liberal" is a dirty word on Lemmy. It helps that PSAs like this one routinely appear on other instances to inform newcomers. Just keep spreading the knowledge and let it be known that everybody should block those communities.

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[-] halm@leminal.space 174 points 1 day ago

Just to weigh in here with a bit of political nuance — "tankies" are certainly defined by their leftist politics, but moreso by their apologist defense of regimes that more or less transparently use socialist or communist maxims as a cover for state capitalism or straight out autocracy.

Tankies may be the loudest voices to claim themselves Marxist or socialist, but please don't mistake them as actually representing those ideologies truthfully or completely. Personally, I see tankies as more indebted to a cold war-style school of Soviet dogma transplanted to current autocracies. Marx and Trotsky would have rolled their eyes at either.

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[-] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 51 points 1 day ago

Yes avoid .ml and hexbear and life is mostly good here.

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this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2024
374 points (83.9% liked)

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