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cross-posted from: https://feddit.nl/post/16246531

I feel like we need to talk about Lemmy's massive tankie censorship problem. A lot of popular lemmy communities are hosted on lemmy.ml. It's been well known for a while that the admins/mods of that instance have, let's say, rather extremist and onesided political views. In short, they're what's colloquially referred to as tankies. This wouldn't be much of an issue if they didn't regularly abuse their admin/mod status to censor and silence people who dissent with their political beliefs and for example, post things critical of China, Russia, the USSR, socialism, ...

As an example, there was a thread today about the anniversary of the Tiananmen Massacre. When I was reading it, there were mostly posts critical of China in the thread and some whataboutist/denialist replies critical of the USA and the west. In terms of votes, the posts critical of China were definitely getting the most support.

I posted a comment in this thread linking to "https://archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://imgur.com/a/AIIbbPs" (WARNING: graphical content), which describes aspects of the atrocities that aren't widely known even in the West, and supporting evidence. My comment was promptly removed for violating the "Be nice and civil" rule. When I looked back at the thread, I noticed that all posts critical of China had been removed while the whataboutist and denialist comments were left in place.

This is what the modlog of the instance looks like:

Definitely a trend there wouldn't you say?

When I called them out on their one sided censorship, with a screenshot of the modlog above, I promptly received a community ban on all communities on lemmy.ml that I had ever participated in.

Proof:

So many of you will now probably think something like: "So what, it's the fediverse, you can use another instance."

The problem with this reasoning is that many of the popular communities are actually on lemmy.ml, and they're not so easy to replace. I mean, in terms of content and engagement lemmy is already a pretty small place as it is. So it's rather pointless sitting for example in /c/linux@some.random.other.instance.world where there's nobody to discuss anything with.

I'm not sure if there's a solution here, but I'd like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

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[-] lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 23 hours ago

I’m not sure if there’s a solution here, but I’d like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

It depends on what exactly do you consider the problem to be, but my understanding is that solutions to the more general problem of "what server a community is in" are already in the works (multicommunities and stuff).

As for a more local kind of change... Be the change you want to see. Start up, and maintain, those alt communities that would serve as counterweights to the ones that are in .ml. Also, understand why they are in .ml in the first place yet still manage to function.

[-] Carrolade@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago

As the dev's flagship instance, there is only so much that can be done. There is also only so much that should be done, since they should have the right to run their own instance however they see fit. They did put the work in to create the service, after all.

I think the most reasonable solution around this is to simply push mbin a little harder. Since .ml will always garner a certain degree of attention as the dev's instance, simply pivoting more attention to a lemmy-related service may be the best option to make us more appealing to less politically-interested people overall.

[-] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world 7 points 23 hours ago

There is also only so much that should be done, since they should have the right to run their own instance however they see fit.

Disagreed, I've seen them trying to force their hand on other instances into running things the way they want them to, so I think it's only fair others hold them to some standards as well. After all in the Fediverse there is some leverage you do have to get other instances to compromise, by way of simply refusing to operate with them anymore. Obviously that doesn't mean completely bossing them around, which is why I said compromise, not comply. It also is still their choice whether or not to follow through, it comes at the cost of them no longer inter-operating with servers they refuse to compromise with, but I think that's more than fair enough as a trade off.

It is also a good idea to push for alternatives, but even so, if the issue isn't addressed it will still be problematic on those problems due to the size and weight the instance and its communities carry in the Fediverse.

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[-] OpenStars@discuss.online 9 points 1 day ago

And shout-out to Piefed and Sublinks as well. All three of those look so promising! They have a bit of catching up to do but... yeah, I agree with you. Plus, being written in a more widely-known language (the likes of Python vs. Rust), I would hope that it would catch up rather quickly?

[-] doctortran@lemm.ee 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I feel like I've been saying it from the beginning, but for all of the problems Reddit has that Lemmy ostensibly solves, it opens the door for far worse moderation problems than Reddit had.

We can shit talk Reddit admins all night and day, but their long-standing and often problematic insistence on neutrality was nevertheless beneficial for the site's growth.

And I think one of the fundamental problems with Lemmy is that too many of the people in charge of various instances don't have a similar philosophy. They want to choke the place, and curate it to their exact specifications, for their own individual reasons.

Which would be fine in a vacuum. But in a federated space, what is done on one instance can have a wide ranging effect on the visibility of content outside of that instance. And as op rightfully points out, because communities are locked to an individual instance, the nature of federation doesn't help users escape overbearing moderation when the only true sizable communities for a thing happen to be on a specific instance.

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[-] moosetwin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 day ago

stuff like this is why I have ml and hexbear in my blocklist, they don't deserve my traffic

[-] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 6 points 22 hours ago

You really should join an instance that defederates from those instances. That is the way to actually "vote" on the fediverse, not via simple user blocking that doesn't actually achieve what you think it does, as the other reply points out.

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[-] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world 6 points 23 hours ago

You may want to consider the fact that instance blocks on the user side don't actually effect that, they are not in any way like defederation, not by a long shot. They simply filter communities from those instances, and not much else. It doesn't even hide user interactions from those instances.

[-] ptz@dubvee.org 4 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

They simply filter communities from those instances, and not much else. It doesn't even hide user interactions from those instances.

Yep. "Block instance" is basically "block all communities on this instance". Its API-level behavior leaves a lot to be desired.

Some UIs will filter users from blocked instances (posts and comments). I know Tesseract does, and I think maybe Boost does?

[-] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world 2 points 19 hours ago

I mean I think that's the idea, they didn't want people blocking the instance to disrupt normal discussions by hiding the users.

Their intent wasn't to offer an alternative to defederation, but rather for blocking all an instance's communities manually.

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this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2024
374 points (83.9% liked)

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