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Illegal invasion vs Buffer Zone
(lemmy.ml)
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The US has used Ukraine as a proxy against thr RF since at least Euromaidan. Their policy with Ukraine was and is to apply maximum pressure to Russia to isolate them from the rest of Europe. The US funding and arming the war to the last Ukrainian is therefore a continuation of decades-long policy and not a "decision to help".
This also applies to Israel. Israel is a lapdog of US empire that lashes out at targets in the middle eaat in ways that serve US ruling class interests. The US' support of Israel did not begin on October 7, it has been ongoing for decades. The US just provided even more money than usual and has withstood siding with genocide because it has a complacent, propagandized, and complicit population.
Hamas is certainly on the right side, which is to say, the liberation of Palestine from its racist settler colonists.
The US has used Ukraine as a proxy against thr RF since at least Euromaidan.
Since 1991, but got more active in 2004 and blatantly obvious in 2014.
I’d say one major difference is that most US citizens are just ignorant of what’s going on and don’t contort themselves to support whatever war crime Netanyahu is committing now or play “what about X country.” Yeah a few old gheezers remember when Israel was fighting for survival, which is apparently who Biden caters to, but they are living in a different decade.
If the US, my country, invaded Mexico for being “A proxy against the US” and isolating us or whatever, I would sure as hell want China and Russia to send the narcos nukes for us being such morons, and would take every opportunity to give my government the middle finger, not justify invading a country with a microscopic fraction of our military power. I would hope we fail, miserably, so maybe the lesson sticks this time and the president gets kicked out, no matter what the Mexicans actually did.
The US invaded Cuba to try and stop its revolution following brinksmanship with the USSR on nukes. If the US today understood Mexico to be a military proxy it would be talking about nuking CDMX. The country is run by incredibly cold and violent people. It would run 24/7 propaganda about the necessity of invading Mexico for our defense and to make preemptive strikes. It would create false flags to justify whatever action they wanted to take. These all have precedent for going and destroying countries thousands of miles away.
Re: what you think you would do, the US has been doing a genocide for over a year. What have you done to ensure it does not happen again? Did you vote for Harria of the Biden-Harris administration carrying it out? If so, that is the exact opposite if what you said you would do.
Remember, no one is immune to propaganda. Wr must always challenge ourselves and be reqdy to receive and process criticism.
Regarding Ukraine, there could be nothing further than truth https://youtu.be/7gxssycoxz0
As for Israel the problem is more that it isn't a lapdog, it looks like US is Israel's lapdog. As it looks like Israel does whatever it wants even if it is against US interests, and US still supports it.
Regarding Ukraine, there could be nothing further than truth https://youtu.be/7gxssycoxz0
Yeah I'm not watching a 35 minute video with no context or explanation. I also didn't say anything about NATO expansion, the apparent topic of the video.
Perhaps you could describe what you think it wrong about what I have said.
As for Israel the problem is more that it isn't a lapdog, it looks like US is Israel's lapdog.
Israel knows its value to US interests and leverages this to its advantage, but never confuse this for Israel being the lapdog. They are dependent on US "aid", weapons, investment, and diplomatic cover. Do you really think that tiny country is dominant over the global superpower?
Also, be careful when making this claim, as it is often made in antisemitic circles.
As it looks like Israel does whatever it wants even if it is against US interests, and US still supports it.
This is because it is otherwise fully aligned with the interests of the US ruling class. It serves a useful purpose. This is also because US propaganda would have you believe that it never tolerates, say, the killing of Americans. Of course it does, it just uses this as an excuse when it wants to do something terrible to another country.
Regarding Ukraine, there could be nothing further than truth https://youtu.be/7gxssycoxz0
NATO expansion:
- George Washington Univ., 2017: NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner
- Orinoco Tribune, 2022: Former German Chancellor Merkel Admits that Minsk Peace Agreements Were Part of Scheme for Ukraine to Buy Time to Prepare for War With Russia
- Al Mayadeen, 2023: Zelensky admits he never intended to implement Minsk agreements
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine
.
NATO in general:
- The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World
- CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance
- Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world”
- Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism
- Gabriel Rockhill, 2020: The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It
.
Maidan coup & fascist attacks on Eastern Ukraine:
- Reuters, 2014: Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU
- Leaked recording between Nuland and Pyatt: audio | transcript
- Counterpunch, 2014: US Imperialism and the Ukraine Coup
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: 'I want to bring up a warrior': Ukraine's far-right children's camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
- openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
- Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
- Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
- Consortium News, 2023: The West’s Sabotage of Peace in Ukraine Former Israeli Prime Minister Bennett’s recent comments about getting his mediation efforts squashed in the early days of the war adds more to the growing pile of evidence that Western powers are intent on regime change in Russia.
- NYT, 2024: U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
As for Israel the problem is more that it isn’t a lapdog, it looks like US is Israel’s lapdog. As it looks like Israel does whatever it wants even if it is against US interests, and US still supports it.
The tail is not wagging the dog. The US would shut it down if Israel ran up against US interests enough. But Israel doesn’t run up against US interests; it’s in line with them. Israel is the US’ unsinkable aircraft carrier in West Asia. As Biden has said throughout his career, “Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interests in the region.”
The former chief of NATO has already admitted that the war started due to NATO expansion, go peddle your propaganda somewhere else
The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that. So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.
Hamas didn't just appear one day. It was an attempt by Palestinians to take control of their own destinies.
Sure it wasn't out of altruism. If Ukraine loses, more things will happen (remember, this didn't start with Ukraine, we had Chechen, we had Georgians, we had Ukrainian Crimea and now Ukraine)
- Ultimately we'll have war in Europe which will force US to be involved (as mentioned Ukraine is not first and not last)
- More likely invasion of Taiwan (if US couldn't help Ukraine, how will they help Taiwan?)
- We will get a nuclear proliferation, a bunch of other countries (Japan, South Korea, Poland, Germany and others) will be interested to obtain nukes, as that will be the only guarantee to not get invaded
(to clarify: Hamas is not the right side, the "right side" is to protect the innocent civillians in the region)
I’d legitimately like to know what you are specifically referring to. Because FAR TOO MANY people only know about Hamas what the Israeli government/interest groups wanted them to see. Especially because without Hamas, most Palestinian people would not have water nor electricity for example. So they are in fact protecting the innocent civilians, unlike what you wrote. You were wrong there.
I’d be curious to hear why the people trying to push back their colonizers are not on the right side to you. Who is then? Is it Israel, the one literally bombing, kidnapping, raping and using Palestinian people as human shields?
Who do you think this is applying to? I've seen a ton of people against both. The US government supports Israel because they're a friendly power in the region. But that doesn't make it right, or that most people would agree with the decision.
Also, there's a difference of scales. Russia tried to push to Kiev to install a government, Israel looks like it's more of a land grab. Again, neither are just, but they're not the same.
this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2024
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