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submitted 1 year ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

Mike Dulak grew up Catholic in Southern California, but by his teen years, he began skipping Mass and driving straight to the shore to play guitar, watch the waves and enjoy the beauty of the morning. “And it felt more spiritual than any time I set foot in a church,” he recalled.

Nothing has changed that view in the ensuing decades.

“Most religions are there to control people and get money from them,” said Dulak, now 76, of Rocheport, Missouri. He also cited sex abuse scandals in Catholic and Southern Baptist churches. “I can’t buy into that,” he said.

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[-] ohlaph@lemmy.world 72 points 1 year ago

I don't mind organized religion. What I do hate is that religion pushing their beliefs onto everyone they meet, pushing their religion beliefs throughout school systems, etc. If religious can keep to themselves, I see it like yoga or CrossFit.

[-] CADmonkey@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago

A crossfit trainer, an ex-marine, and a born-again christian all walk into a bar.

We know that, because they won't stop telling everyone.

[-] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago

I'm surprised this comment has lasted 6 hours without anyone saying "there's no such thing as an ex-marine"

[-] CADmonkey@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I, too, am disappointed by the lack of offended ex-marine comments.

[-] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago
[-] Syringe@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Because SEMPER FI !!! OOORAH!!

[-] Sir_Simon_Spamalot@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

Clearly, you haven't met crossfitters

[-] jose1324@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

Clearly you don't own an airfryer

[-] Sir_Simon_Spamalot@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

No, but my wife wants us to :(

[-] jose1324@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Don't give in. Just get a good oven for everything and it's the same

[-] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

Obviously you're not a golfer

[-] cmhe@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

IDK about equalizing religion and yoga. At minimum, the yoga exercises seem pretty useful for getting a flexible and healthy body, and (judeo-christian) religous ceremonies are mostly just a reason for people to get together, which many other activities can do as well.

The positives that people get from religion are mostly about the feeling of being part of a community, with their own lore, rules, codex and ceremonies. Just like DnD groups, with the major difference that some members actually belief all of that stuff, which is spooky and dangerous, because that opens these people to all sorts of other crazy ideas.

[-] TheCee@programming.dev 17 points 1 year ago

If religious can keep to themselves

Since religions compete, that doesn't sound feasible.

[-] Senuf@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

Although all religions are useless and shouldn't have any privilege, only to be practiced in their own spaces, I am aware that not all religions compete in a proselytistic way. I understand that, for example, Judaism doesn't proselytise and that "converting" to Judaism is even a long and difficult process, which makes me think it is like discouraging conversion, in some way, by making it so uphill.

[-] TheCee@programming.dev -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Pretty sure you can be born into judaism, though. Chances are, it is even the default scenario with even semi-religious parents.

That's not "keeping to yourself" to me. That's like passing the cigarettes to your kids.

[-] Senuf@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah, I agree, to a certain point. Most Jewish people I know, though, aren't religious at all but for following certain traditions that don't even include eating kosher food. Of course that doesn't include orthodox Jews, but I don't know any.

As for the training of it ("That's not "keeping to yourself" to me. That's like passing the cigarettes to your kids" and the "default scenario"), well, it's the default upbringing in every family. Besides exceptions, conservative parents will raise conservative kids because that's their growing environment, the same with more liberal ones, etc. That's not proselytising, it's a while different thing

[-] TheCee@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago

That’s not proselytising, it’s a while different thing

I don't see your point. How is brainwashing children ok when wololo-ing people is not? Even from an egocentric perspective, you have to live in a society.

[-] Senuf@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I never said brainwashing children was ok as far as I can recall. Would you mind pointing at the part where I said so ~~it~~ or even implied so?

What I said is that that isn't proselytising. It's a different concept to raise your kids in a certain way and to go to others who already have a different faith (or none) and try to convince them to convert.

Of course, I know that everyone is born without any religion and by that account the limit is blurred, yet to raise a kid into one's own faith and/or traditions is not the same as proselytising.

As for Judaism, I stand by what I said: it's not proselytist in the way other religions are, trying to convert other people. I don't judge it as bad or as good, I don't care. I just state a fact as I've seen/read.

Edit: word

[-] TheCee@programming.dev 0 points 1 year ago

I never said brainwashing children was ok as far as I can recall.

Fair enough, you didn't. I apologize. I lost track of the chain of posters and mixed you up with the first poster who didn't seem to recognize the dangers of passing belief to children.

As for Judaism, I stand by what I said: it’s not proselytist in the way other religions are, trying to convert other people. I don’t judge it as bad or as good, I don’t care. I just state a fact as I’ve seen/read.

That may be case. Which is possibly why, historically speaking, Judaism doesn't seem to be on the winning side. Which is bad, because it means opportunities for more fanatical, agressive religions.

[-] Senuf@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago

Apologies accepted, of course.

That may be case. Which is possibly why, historically speaking, Judaism doesn't seem to be on the winning side. Which is bad, because it means opportunities for more fanatical, agressive religions.

On one hand, I agree. Yet I think that had Judaism been more proselytist, it would have gained more followers and, probably, been more fanatical and aggressive. I mean, ultraorthodix Jews are as fanatical as your fellow Taliban or the right-wing Christians.

Thanks for this exchange of opinions.

[-] TheCee@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago

Yet I think that had Judaism been more proselytist, it would have gained more followers and, probably, been more fanatical and aggressive.

Yes, that's what I'm counting on, since I assume that ideas like religions take part in a long-term process of evolution. Unfortunately, the most whackiest, edgiest religions seem to be the most fit. Therefore my answer to the top level post.

[-] Senuf@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

I agree.

And your phrasing (italics are mine)

ideas like religions take part in a long-term process of evolution.

was quite interesting. Was it an intended pun? It made me laugh.

[-] TheCee@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago

Was it an intended pun?

Unfortunately, no.

[-] Soggy@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

I mind the normalization of magical thinking. It's the same reason I bristle at astrology and tarot and luck charms.

[-] kicksystem@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

And that has a whole bunch of negative consequences, because these people won't listen to reason if it inconveniences them

[-] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago

Unfortunately you can't have religion without people trying to evangelize. It's part of the problem.

[-] sanpedropeddler@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

But... you can. It already exists

[-] MetalJewSolid@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 year ago

its like they dont realize that christianity isn't the only religion in the world

[-] cogman@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah, sort of funny. A good number of religions are hard to convert to (or don't take converts). Partially because religion in human history has been a tool for a community to distinguish why they are better than outsiders. A lot of older religions died from this exclusivity.

[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago

There's a world of difference between "you should join my religion, we don't eat fish" and "my religion says you can't eat fish."

[-] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

That's not correct. Where I live, religion is intertwined with daily life and yet nobody ever tried to talk me into anything

this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
1460 points (97.7% liked)

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