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this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
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Winning hearts and minds means we have to try to understand why the average person thought Hamas was their best option, and giving them better options.
Also your logic is inconsistent. Palensteniens did this to themselves, so Palestinien civilian deaths are ok and unavoidable.... that logic also works if you reverse the names.
So either killing civilians is bad and nobody should do it, or killing civilians is acceptable.. both sides have to be measured by the same metric, you can't have both.
The problem with that argument is that you've completely removed intent from it.
Hamas INTENDS to murder innocent civilians.. Hamas INTENDS to use civilians as human shields seek that any retaliation will get them killed.
Israel goes to extraordinary lengths to minimum civilian casualties, calling ahead to give I people a chance to evacuate military targets before demolishing them.
So by all means, measure the same metric: intent
Intent is interperative and very hard to prove, we can measure non-combatant deaths. If a building is bombed to kill a single solider does it matter if there are 99 non-combatents in the building? What if the wrong building was hit and no soldiers die?
Air raid reprisals by their very nature will have civilian collateral, explaining to people that these civilian deaths are ok but not opposing civilian deaths... is not going to erode support for Hamas.
There used to be a military doctrine that all able bodied people of fighting age were legitimate military targets, the intent isn't to harm civilians but to diminish military man power reserves. Does that makes it ok to kill civilians who are potential soldiers? If that's ok, then a dance party is filled with military candidates as well as a refugee shelter..
There are no winners when we say civilian deaths are ok for me but not for thee. Civilians should be able to opt out of fighting... by fleeing to safety...
Intent isn't hard to prove at all.
Hamas expressly and proudly states is trying to kill Israeli civilians.
Israel has very openly and transparently shown that time and again they give civilians warnings ahead of time that buildings are being targeted and they are given time to evacuate.
This isn't a mystery.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-airstrike-gaza-kills-8-children-u-s-envoy-arrives-n1267490
Clearly the warning and timing has some flaws....
Much like the US, when Israeli soldiers and LEO fuck up I'm not convinced they're held properly accountable. The official purpose isn't to murder civilians but that only holds water if there's accountability.
I don't disagree.
On the other hand, Palestinian police make literally zero effort to reign in their own terrorists.