358
Israel declares siege of Gaza as Hamas threatens to start killing hostages
(www.theguardian.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
358 points (95.7% liked)
News
23669 readers
3343 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Jesus fucking Christ.
This feels like a humanitarian crisis that will soon become a full genocide.
It feels like the Israeli govt has used this terrorist attack to become terrorists themselves.
I mean they've been like that since forever, but now they're showing their true colors (more than they were).
I don't think it is outside of the realm of possibility that in 30 years we learn that the Mossad knew about this and were ordered to let it happen. The intelligence fuckup was so enormous that it seems plausible they at least knew something was up. And the Israeli government has proven itself cynical enough to lend such a thought possible.
There was rumor that they were observed training for this and the authorities told something was up. Which they seemingly ignored. Defense forces have to be right all the time however. Attackers only need to be right once. So be careful reading a lot into it.
Yep, I'd imagine most times when there have been air strikes, incursions, raids etc. Where they've destroyed weapons or captured/killed some terrorist leader could have thwarted similar events.
For a long time I've thought of the situation there as a slow-motion genocide. Looks like they're using the "surprise" attack by Hamas as an excuse to go full Hitler.
I think we'll see Israel just bomb the entire strip into a crater, they've spent the last 20 odd years working on weaponry that's specifically designed to destroy Palestine, they've just been waiting for something they can use as an excuse to use it all.
Now we know why Israel has been so reluctant to send military aid to Ukraine. They've been saving it for a special occasion.
Jewish space lasers... again?
They are "acting accordingly" by performing an ethnic cleansing. How disgustingly ironic.
Israel's "peace talks" are nonsense.
Israelis have stolen their land and homes, have performed ethnic cleansing, stripped them of their rights, and acted like they're the victims the entire time.
There's no good solution here, but an Israeli solution is not any solution at all.
"Israel offering peace talks" is like me offering you a couch after I steal your land and burned your house down. It isn't workable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
Since you love Wikipedia links and "peace agreements" here is one.
There can be no effective peace talks between the neck and the sword.
Palestinians have always been a people with a homeland but deprived of a state, their identity forged by oppression and resistance under a succession of empires. They were not called to give any input on the British decision to carve out their land for a Jewish state. They were driven out of their land by the millions, and those that remained were squeezed tighter and tigther, slowly pushed out of the usable land by illegal colonists which are protected by the state of Israel. Palestinian statehood was neglected for long enough that Israel was able to shatter or consume all Palestinian territory, making a Palestinian state inviable.
The state of Israel is entirely the product of imperialism, first British and now American. There can be no peaceful two-state solution because one of these states should not exist! The only peace will be a one-state peace, and it can only be achieved through bloodshed. Either the Palestinian people will finally gain their sovereignty, or the Zionists will finish building their monoethnic, theocratic paradise over the crushed bones of Palestine.
The idea that "some societies are just evil" is a very poor excuse to justify apartheid, but it's certainly not a new one. What is more "evil": to hate those that invaded your land and deprived you not only of self-determination, but of food, water and a future? Or to consider those of a different religion and cultural background as "human animals", spit on them and their religious symbols, arrest their children and deprive them of their human rights, kick their elders to the curb, drive them out of their family farms and into crowded and guarded ghettos?
Calling that heinous conclusion you came to rational is an offense to reason and to all moral and reasonable people.
My point about imperialism stands because it hinges on the creation of the modern state of Israel itself as well as its consequences. The imperialist character of Israel predates even its foundation, let alone the Arab-Israeli War. I don't understand why you keep linking to this section about the All-Palestine government. Could you elaborate?
I encourage you to read a bit further into that article about the Gaza Strip. It mentions how Israeli control over the Gaza Strip, both during its occupation and after, has served to operate an intentional de-development, leading to an engineered humanitarian crisis. Israel has arguably turned Gaza into the largest open air prison in the world (the article's words, not mine), and the large majority of those imprisoned are civilians, including a large contingent of children.
Anyhow, I can see that we are both very passionate about this, but I hope that you are at least able to see this from another point of view and understand that my position is not ill-intentioned. I harbor no hatred towards Jews or Israeli citizens as a whole; I do despise imperialist Zionism and the apartheid practices of the state of Israel. I believe the state should not have been created, because it is from its inception a theocratic herrenvolk democracy and a puppet of imperialist powers used to keep the Arab countries in Western Asia and the Mahgreb in check; and that the best possible solution to the Palestinian conflict is a multi-religious, multi-ethnic Palestinian state in which neither Arab nor Jewish supremacy is permitted.
Cannot wait til leftist podcasts invent a more accurate term for "countries doing things I don't like" because this one is so fucking dumb
I'm not a big fan of podcasts, so I got the term from Lenin's book on the matter; that's the definition of imperialism I'm using. Countries which are not imperial powers do plenty of things I don't like. I'm not claiming that one or another war crime is essentially imperialist, I'm saying that the foundation of the state of Israel is a reflection of imperialism as the current, highest stage of capitalism; the stage of the internationalization and concentration of capital through monopoly and the global financial system; reflected politically in the colonization and exploitation of the whole world and its division in empire and colony; which first dominant empire was the British and second and dominant great empire is the US. In this context, the creation of Israel is a British colonial project which was carried out without any consultation to the Palestinian residents of the area, and with the intention to strengthen the British claim to that chunk of the Ottoman Empire. Israel is now repurposed as a bastion of US imperialism in Western Asia, which serves to keep the Arab powers in check and satisfy the goals of Christian Zionism.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Tripe is tripe.
I totally agree with you.
In the same vein, Ukraine has totally ignored various offers from Russia and isn't a true partner for peace.
All they need to do is compromise and give up their land.
So the moment the Palestinians stop resisting, Israel will stop settlement construction (i.e. Ethnic cleansing) despite this being the opposite position of Netanyahu's government?
Of course!
ok Israel, tell us you're openly planning to violate the Geneva Convention without telling us...
They already have for decades. It's pretty well known they have killed wounded, children and civilian/non-combatants, and specifically target medical facilities. There's even no actual Red Cross in Israel, the President of Israel appoints the president of the Magen David Adom. Something that only happens in a few authoritarian contexts. The ICRC has spend decades trying to get them to international humanitarian standards, but they stubbornly refused and even used financial manipulation (from the American Red Cross on behalf of Israel) to pressure the movement into folding to their demands. Even after being admitted with the approval of the red crystal, they still continue to violate the conditions of their admittance to the movement. They are not supposed to operate outside of Israel but still act on the West Bank and break the conditions all the time. They're the only Red Cross who is mandated by their state to act as an arm of the army in the event of a war. Something that is explicitly against the principles of the movement and the Conventions.
Best not to ~~poke~~ bomb the sleeping giant.