358
Israel declares siege of Gaza as Hamas threatens to start killing hostages
(www.theguardian.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
358 points (95.7% liked)
News
23669 readers
3343 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Cool so they're announcing they're doing war crimes?
They never weren't, but they at least had the decency to pretend like they weren't before.
Taking and killing hostages are both war crimes.
Oh, so war crimes are justified as long as the other side does it first?
Potentially, sure. Things like carpet bombing civilian areas, certain uses of minefields, certain munitions, etc are banned by convention but the thing about the Geneva Conventions are that they are a mutual treaty. Your nation agrees not to do it to other signatories or nations or forces that have otherwise agreed to the limitations as well.
In this case? No. Not at all justified. Hamas might not agree to the Conventions, and thus don't benefit from the protections, but the moment they suspended elections they lost the right to claim they represent the Gaza Strip, even if Israel didn't claim it as territory regardless.
Israel is a signatory of the Conventions, and the Gaza Strip is their claimed land, this is a war crime against people they claim as their own, the actions of what amounts to a domestic terrorist network is irrelevant to whether they can starve people into submission.
A standard genocidal tactic of imperialists everywhere, mind you, from the Irish famine, to the Holodomor, to the Bengal Famines.
Israel doesn't claim Gaza though
Fair enough, it's just the rest of the world that says they act like they do whatever they officially claim, while they refuse to recognize everything necessary for Palestine to exist as a functional state.
Oh most certainly. Palestine as a whole isn't a functional state, just the Gaza Strip (albeit under varying degrees of blockade since Hamas was elected and won the civil war). I'd consider the W.B to be occupied/undergoing a slow process of annexation. I think the most realistic solution for the citizens of the W.B is that they at some point in the future get the option to become Israeli citizens with all the rights (and responsibilities) that entails.
How do you explain the illegal Israeli settlements there then?
There aren't any.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_statistics_for_Israeli_settlements_in_the_Gaza_Strip
well, I stand corrected.
You're thinking of the West Bank.
yeah probably
Israel unilaterally removed itself from the gaza strip all most 20 years ago. They only sell infrastructure to the gazan government.
Yes but this particular news story is about Israel publicly announcing a war crime.
One of these is a state. A state with US military support.
And war crimes justify war crimes?
Murder is against the law in western countries but of someone tries to kill you, you can kill them in self defense.
So yea of someone is committing war crimes against you, you can fo ahead and fight back to get them to stop
War crimes are war crimes, doesn't matter if the other side started them first. Israel is stooping just as low as Hamas is with these tactics, you can and should fight in self defense without targeting Civilians
They don't target civilians. Hamas does.
When you build your headquarters inside a civilian hospital, and that hospital gets bombed, you are to blame for the war crime of positioning your HQ in a civilian hospital, not the person who bombs you.
If you build an HQ in a hospital that's (likely? I'd assume so) a war crime. If your opponent then bombs that hospital to bomb you they are also committing a war crime. Some of you are insane, would you agree with the police shooting hostages because "well they took the hostages first, it's their fault we shot them". Fuck no, you'd cry for whoever did that to go to prison. Just because Hamas is stooping so low does not suddenly make it OK for Israel to stoop just about as low.
Yeah I'm aware. Show me on the doll where ((George Soros)) and the ((globalists)) hurt you.
fancy how it always ends up being this according to people defending Israel as rightful. I don't give a shit about Israel being mostly jewish. Should I give them a free war crime pass because they suffered from genocide in the past? That how you think this should work?
I don't care about your beliefs, because you are largely ignorant of the actual situation. I'm calling out the fact that your information sources are blatantly anti-Semitic.
You're just their rube.
In the real world - sadly, yes.
It's legally how the Geneva Conventions work. You are only bound to them if the other side agrees to it as well.
However, Hamas is not the Gaza Strip, it is not Palestine, and Israel claims the Strip as its territory anyways so to claim the civilian population doesn't accept the Convention so they aren't bound by it is ludicrous.
so wait. Siege is a war crime? Not taking a side, I'm just a technicalities kind of guy. Its not like locking people in a house. And don't hostage negotiators do just that in the US? (Could be just on tv). But it's a big place. Fuel and electricity are nice to haves. They should have some amount of food and water stored up. And the southern border is with egypt, so I assume they can't actually do anything about that. Doesn't seem like a straight up war crime. But I have never read yhe definitions they have at the UN.
Using hunger as a weapons against a populace is 100% a war crime, yes.
I just took a gander at the list as a refresher, and it is not 100% a war crime. You can argue this is an unjustified or excessive attack on civilians, but a judge may rule that is is required to defend against the enemy (Hamas).
Item 2.b.25 from the list seems to match up:
"Intentionally using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare by depriving them of objects indispensable to their survival, including wilfully impeding relief supplies as provided for under the Geneva Conventions; "
Is the intent to starve civilians or to deprive hamas combatants of any and all supplies?
If you are blocking an entire region from getting food and water then yes, the intent is to starve the civilian population.
Regardless of what we feel is intended or not, that is what war is - hell for everybody involved. Let's just hope that this doesn't get drawn out.
That's not what "intent to starve a civilian population" means. This is not a program of starvation. It's cutting off resources before an invasion
This isn't your homebrew DnD game where you can make rules mean whatever you want.
It is though. A program of cutting off resources would be blocking fuel and other goods, not fucking food and water. Ukraine was rightfully put in the corner for cutting off water to Crimea after 2014. There is no excuse to starving people, it's a horrendous crime which should land the people involved in prison. Besides what do you think will happen now? Who will the Palestinians in Gaza trust more, the murder hobos who got them into this mess or the Israelis who decided collective punishment is an appropriate response? War crimes are called war crimes for a reason, just because one side commits them doesn''t suddenly make it ok to commit them back.
It isn't, and whoever told you it is such is just lying to you.
Idk where you people get your "news" but whatever podcasters you listen to are fucking braindead.
You're exactly equivalent to the dumbest of the MAGA by believing that tripe.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/9/israel-announces-total-blockade-on-gaza
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67051292
Gaza is completely blockaded, by Israels own admission. If you don't want to call it an attack on the entire population there, please go ahead and stay delusional. This is not OK, no matter who does it. It was not OK when Ukraine did it to Crimea, it's not OK now. It's heinous and despicable.
Lmao of course the propaganda you fall for is pro-russian too.
Well the EU just called it a war crime. So between the text of the rule, the spirit of the rule, and the fucking international body of governments' interpretation of the rule, I think I'm gonna stick with interpretation that intentionally cutting off food, water, and power to the entire region constitutes intentionally cutting off food and water to civilians.
I guarantee you there is 0 fallout in the real world.