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About 100,000 turn out in London for pro-Palestine rally
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2023
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Edit: keep upvoting the comment that literally is calling for the end of Israel as they “don’t have the right to exist” using some shit strawman with Palestinian genocide as a fulcrum as if that’s what Israel is. The is gov does not define the people just like Hamas doesn’t define Palestine. Are you fucking kidding me?
Israel doesn’t have the right to exist? What kind of brain dead shit are you talking about??
Israel absolutely deserves to exist, they were placed there after they themselves were genocided. THAT is the problem, they were placed there and it’s fucked everything.
Israel absolutely deserves to exist just like Palestine.
Jesus fucking Christ, how are you this fucking stupid? Israel’s existence is not dependent on the genocide of Palestinians, that’s just a bullshit strawman you just pulled out of your ass so you could knock it down. Rights are indeed for people but guess what, when people say Israel deserves to exist they’re talking about the Israeli people. Those people deserve to not be killed or ethnically purged from their homes as well, the difference is the Israel never should have been placed there. But guess what they were. So what do the Israeli citizens do? If we ask you, I guess your stance is go fuck themselves because of what the Israeli gov has done over the many years. Do you not see how reductive and fucked that is?
Personally, I have always been a free Palestine supporter and a strong hater of Israeli gov but the mindless emotional backlash like the one in your comment only enables more hate and bullshit. Israel deserves to exist they just don’t deserve to exist on other people’s lands. That’s a big fucking difference to the emotional bullshit you vomited out. When you say “it (Israel) doesn’t (have the right to exist)”, it sounds quite similar to the Hamas goal of the extermination of Israel. Hamas doesn’t represent the Palestinian people, yet here you are with this bullshit. No, I’m not saying if you don’t suck netanyahoo’s dick you’re an antisemite, I’m saying if you seriously can’t see that there are an insane number of innocents on each side of this conflict, then you are lost and unreasonable.
Israel, the Jewish state, doesn't have the right to exist. That doesn't mean the Jews should be pushed into the sea or whatever, but there's absolutely no reason a country that goes "We're the Jewish homeland. Everyone else can eat shit" needs to exist. This is the 21st century, we should oppose the creation of explicit ethnostates.
I think the point is that we saw just two weeks ago the methods that Hamas would use to un-exist Israel, so it's not that hard to read between the lines of what people mean when they say that Israel should not exist.
This isn't really an accurate description of Israel though. Israel isn't the multi-ethnic paradise it should be, but Israeli Arabs have full legal rights and are pretty well-integrated. An Israeli Arab medic was actually murdered at the music festival when he approached Hamas members in an attempt to negotiate with them.
I would agree that Israel should not make full legal rights dependent on being a Jew, but it doesn't do that, even though there are some actions it's taken, particularly under Netanyahu, to tie Israeli identity more strictly to Judaism. That stuff pisses off quite a lot of secular Israelis as well.
And philosophical quibbling about the role of nation states aside, the fact of the matter is that Israel does exist and it's people are not going to go anywhere. Given that Hamas' explicit aim is to murder them all, Israel is going to do anything and everything to resist them. Palestinian statehood cannot and will never proceed if it's dependent on the violent eradication of Israel. Fortunately, it does not need to depend on that, though Israel must do more to facilitate an actual peaceful conclusion, such as dismantling settlements. But regardless, violence is simply not a productive option for the Palestinian cause, and it never will be. It must be abandoned.
It doesn't on paper, but Arabs face discrimination by the government in many aspect of their lives, from education to building permits to how likely they are to get killed by the police (since 1948 the only protestors to get killed by the police have been Arabs).
Didn't they change that part of their charter in 2017? I mean, they've wanted a ceasefire since the very beginning of this mess (and got two in 2008 and 2012 that fell apart due to Israel not following them), but they made it official that they want a 2-state solution in 2017.
The thing is that, seeing the state of the West Bank (and before that how the Oslo accords failed), non-violence is also not working. We all want non-violence to work, but in the past 20 years Israel has given no indication that they're interested in a solution, violent or nonviolent, to the conflict..
The PLO abandoned violence 30 years ago. It didn't work, which is why people flocked to Hamas.
Aha and why does Israel deserve to exist exactly? I couldn’t care less if every single country in the world disappeared tomorrow. Again, rights are for people, not countries and if your statehood relies on genocide and ethnic cleansing, it needs to go. Call me sympathetic to Hamas talking points all you want. I certainly don’t support their ideology but at the end of the day, one person’s terrorist is another person’s freedom fighter and armed struggle against an occupying force is legal under international law. Hamas isn’t even recognized as a terrorist organization by the UN. Hamas could be flowerpower hippies and they’d still be called “terrorists” by Israel and its allies. Really shows how meaningless that word has become.