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Hamas tried to send fighters to Egypt in ambulances for wounded Gazans — US official
(www.timesofisrael.com)
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this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2023
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Fighters need medical treatment like anyone else when they get wounded, just saying ...
Nah. Terrorists who cut people's heads off can have medical treatment when they surrender.
I wish it was as simple as good vs evil. Sorry to tell you but the world is not a lotr movie, in fact it´s quite complicated ...
There's no need to be cutting civilian's heads off regardless of your back story. That is evil.
That is an obvious and trivial truth that I of course agree with. However, murdering innocent palestinian olive farmers, to steal their land and build illegal settlements on it also seems pretty evil, right?
Obviously
I never said it was simple. But Hamas murdered completely innocent civilians - including babies - that they actively and intentionally targeted. They are irredeemable monsters.
IDF does the same though
It is simple. Want medical treatment, surrender. Want to conduct acts of terror FAFO
Not in this case...
In any case!
There are many people on both sides who see it the way you do. Funny part is, what side is good and what side is evil changes, based on who you ask. Based on individual perspective, ones terrorist is another ones freedom fighter. Please understand that ones judgement is only a personal, subjective opinion and never an objective truth and that one atrocity can never justify another atrocity.
Like you said later, the world isn't simple good and evil. If they don't surrender, they don't get treatment. The IDF would hardly treat a member of Hamas and Hamas would hardly treat a member of the IDF. A group treating civilians can tell members of both to fuck off.
Nope, doctors even swear to not do that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
World isn't simple good and evil. They may have a symbolic oath, but nothing says everyone else has to follow it.
You are entitled to have that opinion, have a nice day.
But you're not entitled to enter Egypt to get it if your a member of Hamas, as the Muslim Brotherhood and it's offshoots are banned there.
Every injured person deserves treatment, no exceptions, anything else would be inhumane.
Would you force Germany to admit a Nazi if they were sick?
What do you mean by admit? You mean to treat? Yes of course. As I said, imo every sick or injured person deserves medical treatment, no matter their background. Also, when they are healthy again, I would want to see that Nazi getting put in front of a court, questioned, convicted and punished as the law dictates.
Admit, to allow to enter.
Yes of course I would, how else could they convict him for his crimes?
Egypt doesn't want to admit people from a group that successfully terrorized their whole nation for an extended period of time. They have no interest in convicting them.
I understand that but for injured people they should make an exception, it would be the humanist thing to do.
You know that's something the Brotherhood should have considered when they decided to commit the atrocities.
Sorry, I have enough of being attacked from both sides constantly, just for being neutral and humanist in this conflict. I get attacked by the pro Israel crowd and simultaneously, in other discussions, I get attacked by the pro Palestine crowd (those people are outstandingly hateful and disgusting). Both sides are so polarized over the topic, I decided to not discuss it any more with neither side. This is in the first place a reaction to the disgusting and hateful people on lemmy.ml, who are unable to accept any opinion from outside of their antisemitic, pseudo-left bubble and definitely not because of you guys but it´s all getting too cumbersome for me overall, so I will dropout of the topic in general.
I'm sorry I made you feel attacked. It's just that's it unreasonable for a society who directly suffered from a horrible actor to forget that so soon. It was 2013 when they were in power last and 10 years is a blink of an eye in the timeline of a society. In 30-40 years I think the pain of the Brotherhood's actions may have healed enough that they would risk allowing the brotherhood in to aid in civilian casualties.
You're not wrong for seeing the suffering in Gaza and wanting it to stop. You're not wrong for seeing the atrocities of Hamas and calling them out.
I hope you have a great day.
Never mind, it wasn't you. I was just getting tired of arguing with 20+ people from both sides simultaneously. Seems like whenever I say something neutral and humanist, at least one of both camps is gonna attack me, which one depends on the instance.
I totally understand that grudge, It's only human. However, I wish people were better at letting go of grudges. The whole Israel-Palestine situation would be less severe if people could.
That is the first time someone says that to me here and I really needed to hear it!
Thank you for your nice reply and a great day to you too!
Yeah these people killed and raped babies. Then they laughed about it. They don't deserve shit until they surrender.
Youre talking about israel, right? The people that have been reported doing that for decades?
Those stories regarding killing babies have been shown conclusively to be false, and the journalists responsible have publicly retracted the statements and apologized for the disinformation.
There were definitely dead babies wtf do you mean? Has "there were no 40 beheaded babies" now morphed into "no dead babies at all" or what?
I wish it was as simple as good vs evil. Sorry to tell you but the world is not a lotr movie, in fact it´s quite complicated ...
I never said it was. The world is full of shades of grey.
But the way this group has tried to resist oppression is despicable and cannot be excused.
@photonic_sorcerer @Nacktmull It can't be excused yet. No one is working diligently to liberate Palestine from Israel. No one has in decades
True, and yet non-violent revolutions have succeded in the past. Hamas wants to raze Israel from the face of the earth. They have no place in a civilized society.
I fully agree but wonder why you don´t mention the other half of this truth. Obviously human slaughtering terrorists have no place in a civilized society. However, it must also be said that there is no place in a civilized society for right-extremist-racists, who murder residents and occupy their land to build illegal settlements.
Agreed
@photonic_sorcerer oh btw, saying "Hamas wants to raze Israel from the earth", while Israel builds settlements, refusing to negotiate, commits ethnic cleansing, and brutalizes Palestinians in a myriad of other ways proves you have no idea what's going on over there
@photonic_sorcerer I would agree with you except for the fact that Israel learned from that, and outlawed peaceful protesting. Yeah, if you peacefully protest against Israel in Israel, they'll throw you in prison. They made their own problem here.
Israel has proven that all they learned from the Holocaust was how to do it better
Bruh
Source?
@photonic_sorcerer https://www.hrw.org/news/2011/01/11/israel/west-bank-jail-peaceful-protesters
"Illegal demonstration" If you don't know this, clearly, you're ignorant on the topic
I'm sorry I'm not omnipotent. Just some dude on the internet, like you.
You first comment seemed to imply a different worldview, apologies.
Of course it can´t. There is guerrilla warfare and then there is barbaric slaughtering of helpless civilians. Those are absolutely not the same.
No it's not, see the reaction of journalists/politicians who attended the screening of 43 minutes of 7-Oct atrocities...
Both sides have been in an exchange of atrocities for decades now. What is your point?