293
Derailed train sparks molten sulphur fire in Kentucky
(www.theguardian.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2023
293 points (98.0% liked)
News
23664 readers
3622 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
I knew we would find something to agree on.
I'll edit this with a real reply:
Welcome to unionizing. You give up the voice of the many to have a stronger singular voice. Unions aren't genies there to grant the wishes of every person that pays dues, they represent the masses by giving them a single voice. You are looking at this like all of the people that were put out agreed 100% with each other, and we know that isn't true. They all had different visions of how things should work, and while that venn diagram had a good amount of overlap, it wasn't unanimous. If it was, they wouldn't need a Union rep. It doesn't matter how many people each Union had, it was still a singular class. If you don't like that, then I invite you to figure out a better way to do it, and then present your findings to America's labor unions and get them all to agree on it.
When a majority of voters vote "no", then their representative votes "no". And when that vote is cast along with all of the other representatives, then the votes are tallied and a consensus is reached. Please don't lecture me on how to vote, I've seen the Schoolhouse Rock video, I'm well aware of how things work. If you don't like this system, then you should find some like minded people, and form a group, and then using the power of your collective voice tell the government that it needs to change... wait... that's just a fucking union.
The system was going to strike! The system was working correctly when the majority of workers voted to reject the contract and the contract was rejected. Biden and Congress stopped the system from working. Why do you keep lying about this?
You keep saying a majority of unions voted against the strike but that isn't how votes were actually counted!
And when the majority of workers vote to strike, the workers that vote against it stand with them in solidarity.
You keep insisting that Biden was blameless, but there was going to be a strike. The democratic result of the vote, where the majority voted to strike, was going to happen. The rank-and-file democratic majority won. Democracy was working.
Biden and Congress are the reason the strike was broken. Stop with your historical revisionism.
oooookay. I see where the problem is coming from. So, from the outside, or based on what is shown in movies and TV, when a group wants to strike, it seems like they all secretly pass notes to each other in the lunchroom, and then magically come together in a rainbow picket line a few days later.
That's not how it works.
When a union wants to strike, it is because a large number of it's members have said they think it should happen. Then, a proper vote is put into place, and all of those votes are tallied and the Union leadership decides if there will be a strike or not. In the case of a strike, then the entire union goes on strike, regardless of how you voted when they asked if you wanted to strike. If you don't agree with the strike, you may sit at home and not participate, but you don't work. If you do go in to work, and you cross that line, you are a scab, and scabs are very bad people.
So, now that we have laid out the series of events leading up to the strike, lets take a look at what Biden did.
Biden sat down with the leadership, and said, "Hey, I hear there's going to be a strike. What can I do to prevent it." And the leaders said, "We want these things..." Biden said, "Well, here's what I can agree to," and passed over the list of what he was able to get other lawmakers to agree to. 75% of the Unions leadership in the room agreed to the proposal, and decided that their particular union would not strike. The other 25%, even though they represented a large portion of all workers, knew that the strike wouldn't be effective without 100%, and so they didn't strike, either.
So, looking at this, where is the point of failure? Seems like the lack of coordination between the unions in agreeing on what was acceptable was the problem. Biden did his job. He gave them the best he could, and it was accepted by the majority. Done.
Des that clear this whole mess up for you? Can we stop arguing this now?
Wow, thanks for condescending to me like I'm a child that doesn't know how voting works. Very cool and good.
This is historical revisionism.
The tentative deal that Biden helped them reach when he sat down with leadership was a deal that got voted down by the workers. I can not stress this enough. The unions voted, the majority of workers voted "no", and so a strike was going to happen. That's why Biden had to go above them to Congress and rammed the deal through against the wishes of the workers. That's why it required signing a bill!
And what do you think that bill did?
Once that bill was signed, a strike would have been illegal. That's why they decided not to strike. Biden and Congress forced the workers to accept a contract that they didn't want and said "if you strike anyway you can be fired, sued, or even arrested". The union leadership bowed to pressure coming from Biden and the legal threats stacked up against them. I do somewhat resent them for that, but I can't really blame them - things aren't bad enough for unions to start illegally striking and making an enemy of America's government.
And so derailments keep happening and the safety concerns behind the original intent to strike have not been solved.
We can stop arguing, but I won't vote for Biden again. Between this betrayal and the genocide in Israel it's clear there's no point.
Ok. This is my last reply. Say whatever you want afterward, I'm not responding.
Biden created a bill and presents it to union leadership based on what lawmakers are willing to pass into law. The leadership presents the bill to the workers. The workers vote. The leadership tells Biden they agree. Biden signs the bill. That's it. That's the fucking flow of events. Biden didn't go against the will of a vote he didn't call for. He presented a fucking solution, and the solution was agreed to. It doesn't matter to Biden what the workers voted for. He didn't ask for a vote. He asked the leadership what their decision was. By your own logic, the leadership betrayed the workers by not giving proper representation of their will.
So you're just lying? The workers voted against it and then he presented a bill to Congress, and they signed it. The union had zero power.
If your explanation of events was true, Biden wouldn't have needed an act of Congress in the first place! Why do you think he had to do that?