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How did Lemmy World become the default instance?
(mander.xyz)
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this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2023
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Asklemmy
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Just to be clear, Beehaw defederated LW and many others because they allowed for open sign ups.
From https://beehaw.org/post/567170 (regarding reasons for defederation from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works)
I wouldn’t use Beehaw as the standard, they are way too strict on their moderation in many’s opinion.
This is really what’s is beginning to bother me. I came from Reddit with the fuck-spez-wave searching for an alternative, and Lemmy somehow sounded interesting and a new way of doing things.
I can live with the lag of content, that will come, but more and more it looks like every server is their own little community with whatever weirdnesses they have, and each one has a bunch of moderators, most good, some bad, but all doing what they think is best.
When you’re just a mainstream user looking for content and debate, and take no interest in server drama, defederations and whatever, it’s all just unwanted noise and irritating.
And if you’re not following server news, even if you know the very basics of federation, it’s easy to miss defederations and subsequently never know you’re not seeing content you wanted to see.
Personally, I’m very interested in seeing a true representation of top posts. I’ll need a client that can let me login to multiple instances or a server that’s never the federated from anybody. One risk here is I could recommend Lemmy to someone, they could register on a different instance, and assume I like content I in fact don’t.
Tip: just learned I can see federated and blocked instances at /instances (e.g. https://sh.itjust.works/instances ).
I understand the frustration, but I do believe this is a strength of Lemmy. Small; individual communities is what gives incentive to stay independent, and if you just want the broader content, that’s exactly where and why large instances like Lemmy World is also beneficial.
~~Too strict and their users provoke outside users on purpose.~~
Please disregard, was mixing up Beehaw and Hexbear
Is Beehaw still getting stricter in terms of content available?
~~Then again you're talking about Beehaw, their users react so badly to anyone telling them they might be wrong that it's not surprising their mods need to spend a disproportionate amount of time taking action against other users.~~
~~They defederated from my instance (after refederating) after their users raided the two management communities and were told to fuck off and then played victims in the defederation post, I would take whatever they say with a huge grain of salt.~~
Forget that, was thinking about Hexbear!
I dunno though. Most trolls and bad actors that I have seen around here have indeed been from sh.itjust.works and Lemmy World.
Edit: Ah, that explains it. Beehaw is such a chill place, I could never imagine them doing such things.
The are in the top 5 biggest instances (and programming.dev changed their own account of active users recently), so statistically that makes sense.
https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list
Together, they make up ~~a bit more~~ less than 50% of active users, yet basically all far-right trolls are from there. You could say it is more difficult to moderate big instances, but if you have more users to moderate, you should also increase moderating capacity or close registrations.
Interesting, my personal experience has been more spread, including a few very toxic users on lemme.ee.
We do not make up for 50% of the active users. Also we have plenty of moderators and admins, reports get handled pretty fast. It's up to the community moderators first but if it takes too long one of the admins will step in.
And we will never close registrations.
I remember it used to be higher, now it is approx. 41%. Only strengthens my point, though.
I see different things. There are quite some trolls and abusive accounts that don't seem to get removed.
I'm just saying the moderation has to improve in some way.
That doesn't say much about LW besides being the biggest instance - because trolls beeline towards larger audiences.
Closing registrations might be the sensible approach here. Because the necessary moderation grows exponentially, and eventually too large of a mod/admin team becomes a problem on its own.
The barrier of an application is enough to scare off most non-serious users. I used to favor open registration, but after making an account and participating on an instance with open registration vs closed, I found the closed registration shuts down a lot of bad actors and makes the instance a more pleasant community.
I'm not even advocating for rejecting any of the applications, just having questions to answer before joining seems to significantly cut down on the trolls.
I dont know why you're getting down voted, as a moderator basically all the "death to brown people" comments I have to delete are from that shithole and lemm.ee.
~~https://sh.itjust.works/post/4279462~~
~~https://sh.itjust.works/post/4188546~~
~~https://sh.itjust.works/post/4281207~~
~~Their admin reaction~~
~~https://hexbear.net/post/504353~~
~~"Sh.itholefor.nazis" very mature...~~
Forget that, I always mix up Beehaw and Hexbear!
If you don't want to be called Nazis, then stop putting up with all the fascists in your instance. Pretending the problem doesn't exist is definitely the mature stance to take when someone points out that your instance is harboring fascists.
Lol yeah I just migrated my account away from beehaw because they do plan on leaving eventually and it's kind of jarring how much more low effort posting there is now.
I think that you're partially right.
The sort of online fight that Beehaw seeks to avoid depends on having at least one dumb fuck¹. Two cause it faster, but one is enough - because smart people have an easier time reaching agreement or realising that no agreement is possible.
Both sides (LW+SJW and Beehaw) have their shares of smart posters and dumb fucks². The later are there for different reasons:
If you're a smart user, you eventually learn how to handle the dumb fucks in your instance, in a way that is allowed there: chewing them out (within limits) or avoiding them like a plague. But those approaches break once you're handling someone from the other side:
notes
This isnt really true about beehaw though. Their mods actually have really good heads on their shoulders when it comes to policy and enforcement.
Their goal is to protect the general vibe of the place and their prime rule beyond of course not being a bigot is to "Be(e) Nice". Discussions are meant to be had in good faith and if someone is say spready hate speech and someone tells them to fuck off the mod will likely bad(and depending on what they said delete) the hater and probably do nothing to the person who told them to fuck off.
They will go after people who are arguing in bad faith, trolls, people who are being too aggro for no reason, and of course people getting into a fight who need to cool it.
Their more simplified ruleset is to combat what is often seen when you have the more reddit style strict rules. Where you wind up with users knowing just how to be a dickhead without actually breaking the rules and ruin the place. If a mod bans or deletes a post when the person isnt breaking a rule but stinking up the subreddit then the user causes drama towards the "abusive mod". So the mods then put in more and more rules until the subreddit becomes bland or hostile towards posters. In this example if someone posts hate speech and someone calmly just tells them to fuck off then both posters will have to be penalized for breaking rules.
The beehaw system allows for discretion. Ive also seen admins and mods on that site try and talk things out with posters who are causing a stink and giving them a good faith opportunity before showing them the door.
We're talking about apples and oranges. Or rather, fruits and oranges. Contrast my note #1 with your comment:
You're talking about intentionally socially disruptive behaviour; Beehaw does address it. However I'm talking about bad = non-contributive behaviour in general, regardless of "intentions" or "faith".
Of course the other instance is sh.itfullof.nazis, I have yet to see a single comment from there that wasn't cryptofash garbage
And because Beehaw is the NIMBYest of NIMBY instances, defederating at the drop of a hat. Come to think of it, didn't they end up defederating from federation itself?
I still see a few posts and comments from Beehaw so I don't think so.
I mean theyre trying to keep a chill and civl environment and the mods are volunteers who got tired of having to put up with a disproportionately large amount of comments from very specific instances. Since the mod tools they need in order to better handle this influx wasnt there they took the nuclear option. Something which they did not do lightly.
You can check out: https://beehaw.org/instances
and see they blocked a lot, but most of what they blocked was trash and they are federated with way more instances.
They do plan on leaving though. They predate the reddit bump by more than a year and they only wanted to be a smaller online community and not a reddit replacement and they havent been able to get the tools they need patched into lemmy.