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U.S. v. Trump Will Be the Most Important Case in Our Nation’s History (slate.com)

submitted 1 year ago by trashhalo@beehaw.org to c/politics@beehaw.org

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The indictment against former President Donald Trump for his role in attempting to overturn the 2020 election results is the most important case in U.S. history, according to the author. The indictment alleges that Trump conspired to make false claims of election fraud and used those claims in an attempt to steal the election through pressuring state officials and interfering with Congress' certification of the electoral votes. If convicted, it would deter future would-be authoritarians from attempting to subvert elections. However, Trump may argue that he honestly believed the election was stolen, and assert First Amendment defenses. Still, the risks of not prosecuting Trump for undermining democracy are greater than the risks of prosecution. The outcome of this case will greatly influence whether the U.S. remains a democracy after 2024.

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[-] CapgrasDelusion@kbin.social 28 points 1 year ago

He can claim he believes it all he wants. The indictment isn't just for what he said, it's for what he DID. No matter your beliefs you can't bully a secretary of state to try to get more votes, you can't conspire to have a bunch of fake electors, you can't order the Vice President to overrule the will of the voters.

"The indictment includes charges of conspiring to defraud the U.S., conspiring to obstruct an official proceeding, obstructing an official proceeding and violating a post-Civil War Reconstruction Era civil rights statute that makes it a crime to conspire to violate rights that are guaranteed by the Constitution — in this case, the right to vote." https://apnews.com/article/trump-indicted-jan-6-investigation-special-counsel-debb59bb7a4d9f93f7e2dace01feccdc

There is nothing in those charges about what he said. For those at least, he can't hide behind the first amendment.

I'm more worried there's going to be one fucking dumbass on the jury who derails the whole thing into a mistrial, Trump wins the election, and pardons himself or pulls some other shenanigans to weasel out.

[-] Kwakigra@beehaw.org 17 points 1 year ago

Thanks for re-directing back to the real issue. Fox News and Republicans in general want to make this seem like a free speech issue, and it's going to work if people don't know what the actual details of the case are.

[-] JCPhoenix@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago

Yup. It literally says in the indictment (PDF) that Trump, like anyone else, has freedom of speech.

The Defendant had a right, like every American, to speak publicly about the election and even to claim, falsely,that there had been outcome-determinative fraud during the election andthat he had won . He was also entitled to formally challenge the results ofthe election through lawful and appropriate means, such as by seeking recounts or audits of the popular vote in states or filing lawsuits challenging ballots and procedures. Indeed, in many cases, the Defendant did pursue these methods of contesting the election results. His efforts to change the outcome in any state through recounts , audits,or legal challenges were uniformly unsuccessful.

But of course, FNC and their ilk won't pay attention to that. They won't even read the indictment.

this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2023

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