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Fox hosts forced to grudgingly admit economy booming under Biden
(www.msnbc.com)
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this post was submitted on 04 Feb 2024
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First off, I am not a tankie. I want to make that clear so that the following statement is not misunderstood. Tankies do not think current Russia is somehow still Socialist. Instead, they believe that the Russian Federation is a Capitalist dictatorship over a populace that expresses Communist sympathies and stands against NATO. The hope that tankies have (naively) is that after Putin falls, hopefully a more leftist president can restore the USSR and fight against American Imperialism.
This is obviously a lot of copium, but it absolutely helps to understand what tankies actually are arguing so that you may counter their naive points more effectively. As it stands, you're just strawmanning them, rather than actually taking down their worldview, which just gives them ammunition to perpetuate their worldview.
Either way, to answer your second question, no. All Communism is Socialist, but not all Socialism is Communist. Socialism is when Workers collectively own the Means of Production, while Communism is a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society meant to take place after Socialism (or directly after Capitalism if you lean Anarcho-Communist).
Socialism can be expressed in many ways, from Anarcho-Syndicalism, to Libertarian Socialism, to Democratic Socialism (note: all Socialism is democratic, but Democratic Socialism recreates Liberal Democracy a la America, the EU states, etc with a Socialist Mode of Production), to Market Socialism, to Marxism-Leninism, to Council Communism, to Maoism, and more.
Communism is that specific post-Socialist goal of eventual eradication of class divides, market economies, and the violent repression of states, in one world Communist society.
You could have stopped there.
The extent of what tankies believe is that "US Bad". All other facts and beliefs are completely malleable as long as they support this one, central, defining ideal.
And I believe that making fun of them is the best way to keep them irrelevant. Don't get suckered into a debate about the finer points of their ideology. Their ideology is stupid, and those finer points are subject to change at any time when they get new orders from Beijing so don't bother engaging with it.
Thank you for the explanation of socialism vs communism. Others have tried to do it but usually reference a bunch of jargon that only someone already deeply in communist thought circles would know. You did it very clearly and succinctly using everyday terminology.
So what does owning the means of production look like to you?
Great, your big "anti-tankie" strategy appears to be giving them ammo and cheap shots by deliberately strawmanning them. Way to fight authoritarianism, by giving authoritarians easy wins! I'm sure that won't backfire! Truly, this is probably the worst way to fight against ideologies you don't agree with, that's like saying fascists only want to eat babies. That just lets someone not quite fascist see an easy win, and makes them reconsider their own position as they see fascists winning easy arguments you softball them.
Again, please do not feed them easy ammo if you genuinely care about fighting tankies.
Either way, to answer your question: I am personally anti-tendency broadly, and believe every country has their own path towards Socialism and eventually Communism. I don't think there's much chance of simply voting the bourgeoisie out of power in America, nor do I think violent revolution at the hands of a Marxist-Leninist vanguard party has much chance of success either. In this instance, I actually think Anarcho-Syndicalism, ie mass Unionization and eventual overpowering of Capitalists at the hands of Unions has more of a chance of success in the US.
Similarly, I think in countries in the global south, Social Democracy and eventually Democratic Socialism would be far more possible. The biggest struggle countries in the global south face with trying to convert to Socialism is US interference, so fighting Imperialism is usually their number 1 struggle.
If you're asking what a day to day would look like: much the same as modern society, except you would have far more control over your daily life and the way production is handled, and you wouldn't struggle as much financially.
Can you elaborate a bit on this? How do unions "take over", and what sort of new system would they put in place? Every company is now a co-op? How does investment work? How do we do retirement for workers?
Depends! Could be via mass worker general strikes, or purchasing Capital. It would happen on an industry by industry basis, forming a syndicate of industries owned and run by workers within each industry. Individual companies would likely become entities of the industry, which would be entities of the syndicate. Investment is handled by worker discretion, democratically decided. Retirement works like pensions, typically. Eventually a more advanced form of Socialism would take place, and then eventually Communism.
You can read up on it here: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/rudolf-rocker-anarchosyndicalism
Sounds like a solid plan. Thanks, I'll check it out!