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this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2024
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No Stupid Questions
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Honestly? I think Americans are by and large bad people for not doing anything about it.
Americans seem to be huge on politics, they talk about all these things. But they do nothing, just just come up with excuses.
Change your voting system, change your laws. The power is in the hands of the voters.
That's a really hot take. Tell me, who should I vote for to bring about these magical changes I have the power to effect?
The political party I think you want is on the other side of the current democrats. Ideally, as a nation, you've gotta go left so hard that the current dems would split into right and left. It is a daunting task, and a number of elections in the making...
I honestly think it is too far gone now for it to be turned with only elections. The power is too concentrated and the methods of control are too refined. At minimum, I think it will require mass "illegal" protests along with strong voting. As a bystander in another country, I fear for you all.
That's great in theory, but if we do that, we're giving the government to the GOP in the interim, and they've made it quite clear that if they get power, they don't intend to give it up again. Not to mention, the effects of this would extend well beyond our borders. I've advocated very strongly for exactly this sort of action in the past, but now is simply not the time.
Right, and the way things are going with “states rights” it sounds like the GOP are already going for family planning and birth control with Alabama’s Supreme Court ruling that fertilized embryos are “people”.
You guys need a revolution.
Or at least someone out there breaking politicians legs so they understand what healthcare means.
I don't know, how can you possibly expect me to answer that. What options do you have as your local representative? Maybe run if there is no one good enough.
Incidentally, ranked choice voting was on the ballot where I live in 2020. I actually did spend some time trying to spread the word and drum up support. It didn't pass, so we're right back where we started, and I live in one of the most liberal states in the country.
Our state senators, representatives and local government are actually pretty alright, as American government goes, but the fact of the matter is that the country is being held back by a tyranny of the minority and those of us who don't live in the handful of battleground states that define elections don't really have much power to influence that.
Getting any sort of federal-level change into effect is basically an impossibility, because (it is my view that) corruption is so rampant. We'd have to oust the majority of the House and Senate and replace them with reasonable people to have any chance of getting the votes for something like that. At this point all we can really do is hope to hold off the fascist wave that's building.
Gonna fund that? Pay for their time off?
Crowd source if need be? No other country, even poorer ones have this issue?
What the hell you guys on about.
I don't think you understand how it works in the US, nor how much time/effort which the working poor simply do not have. There's a reason why most in politics are rich there.
Rich people in other countries want universal healthcare.
Okay?
They can run on a mandate of universial healthcare but the US public just don't care enough.
No, their system is gamed.
Best guess, the left of the democrats in the primaries, for a start.
It's not that you lack politicians who agree with the changes that are needed, it's that they are seen as less electable than the guy who did tons of fraud and at least one confirmed rape, somehow. I don't know that Americans are "bad people", but the fact that these common sense positions aren't the default, centrist view across both major parties is baffling.
It's a clumsy way to put it, but it's not wrong that the lack of universal consensus around these things in the US is confusing and unreasonable.
The amount of propaganda we're subject to here is just astounding. News programs, print media, billboards, web articles, everywhere. Just looking at the way a given issue is framed completely differently in different states or cities or from different news sources is pretty eye opening. That, combined with rampant gerrymandering, makes it really hard to blame voters for voting against their self-interest; we're just being bombarded with media designed to make us think, act and vote a certain way. I'm completely sure my own views are influenced by it, too, to be clear - I'm not claiming to be some pillar of purity.
It's not that Americans are 'bad people' any more than the people in any other country are. It's just that a relatively few voices are given very large platforms and basically dictate the discourse.
Yeah, ok.
I don't want to speak for the OP, but... I'm guessing that's what they're saying.
I mean, this issue is not on the ballot elsewhere. Even conservatives who are actively trying to dismantle public health care won't dare suggest that they want less public health care. At most they'll tell you they found ways to invest more and then turn around and give that money to private managers. You certainly broke through the propaganda. I don't think I've spoken to an American anywhere who has made a case for the current health care system. Polls suggest this issue, among other "aren't Americans weird" stuff are wildly impopular with the actual population.
But I also constantly hear from Americans that it's impossible to turn it around, that candidates who support these common sense moves are unelectable and that there is nothing they could ever do about it.
That part is what I don't get. I mean, I'm familiar with elections not going my way, it happens to everybody, but holy crap. There's a reason why this is not on the ballot elsewhere. You wouldn't need an election to figure this out. Even in countries with the bare minimum of democratic guarantees and no money you would have the mother of all endless riots under these circumstances.
Me, personally, I'm not so much judgemental of the American public as I am baffled at their defeatism and conformism.
Have we broken through the propaganda, though? Shit, just look at the pushback around Obamacare (which while certainly not ideal was the best public option health care we've had available in my lifetime) - there was so much negative press that people just didn't have any idea how it was actually benefitting them. There's an old Facebook thread that gets posted from time to time with someone railing against Obamacare while not even realizing they were using it to get coverage.
I think the biggest thing that a lot of folks from outside the US - especially those in Europe - don't understand is just how big this country is. We are around 96% as large as the whole of Europe, with about half the population. The BLM protests was the most widespread activism we've managed that I can remember, and that was squashed pretty easily. It's incredibly difficult to get a significant part of the US to coordinate on anything activism-related, and that's really what it would take to make a difference, I think.
Yeah, I keep hearing the "you don't get how big it is" thing, too.
I get how big it is.
European agriculture workers just reversed EU-wide policy as recently as last week by blocking major roads throughout the continent with tractors. They didn't even agree with each other (half those guys are pissed at the other guys for being too competitive), and the regulations they opposed were climate protection regulations, among other more reasonable things, so this isn't necessarily a feel-good story.
But they won.
They didn't even have to try that hard, honestly. Besides mild traffic jams and some tense standoffs with police it was all pretty mild. And yet politicians across the entire continent, over multiple countries, were terrified of the optics of working class people protesting in loose coordination, especially with right wing parties trying to co-opt their anger.
I get how big it is. The size is not the reason.
NGL, I was offended at first but I'm not sure you're wrong.
There's honestly this constant apathy that the vast majority of people take towards politics. Then some of those people are simultaneously apathetic and regular voters. It's kind of like a fan of Ferrari that doesn't really pay attention to Ferrari or its competition; they're just sure their car is the best.
Then there are those that are completely crazy.
Then there are those that actually pay attention.
It's gotten worse the past few years because instead of getting more people that paid attention we've gotten more apathetic but yet somehow passionate Ferrari lovers.
That plus people don't seem to understand Congress is where stuff actually gets done. There's so much hoopla about the president but Congress is where the focus should be. Way too many people have no idea what their reps are doing.
Yea I didn't write it in the politest way but I was going more for directness than anything.
I think knowing the problem is an important starting point.
People got shot at and died for things like the 5 day work week. But now people just think universial healthcare is beyond their abilities. I haven't heard 1 story from America about a universial healthcare protest. Maybe they exist but not to the level of other things.
If it really mattered to the people I think they should do something.
People have been convinced that their votes don't matter, protests don't matter, etc etc etc
"They're both the same" (in reference to parties) is the extent of most people's political sense.
It's also one of those things where there are enough safety nets and things that for most people it's never really that bad. I don't know anyone personally that's actually lost everything from medical debt. I know it's a possibility and that's scary... I even know some people that are on every aid program out there basically but those programs are paying out the thousands of dollars in monthly medical bills (i.e. in the instances I know the system actually "works" on some level albeit uncomfortably and with a lot of stress).
To put things into context for someone who doesn't live here ... car crashes, cancer, heart attacks, and other rare "inescapable" things like that are all much much more prevalent than crazy medical debt, getting shot, or going homeless.
It's not a dystopia ... most people are living at least decent lives. That's kind of the problem, it's not bad enough for an overwhelming majority of people to actually care.
That leaves some number of people who actually care for the sake of others and some number of people that care for their own sakes to deal with the problems and the propaganda that influences the (mostly) apathetic faction. The people at the bottom of the whole thing are also in the worst possible position to do anything about it because their time and credibility is ultimately judged and scarce when it comes to doing things like going out and convincing people to vote in their favor.
The 5 day work week is largely dead for the working class. Employers either keep nearly all of their employees part time to avoid having to give them health insurance or have weekly mandatory overtime to keep the headcount down because it's cheaper to pay the overtime for 60-80 hr weeks than to give another employee benefits. We're going backwards in most places that we had made gains.
Since when?
I know this is kind of a joke about how dysfunctional Congress is/can be, but it's exactly my point. Whether it's functional or not, without Congress you don't get money for your projects, and you don't get changes to the law.
It's not