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I dont know why they have to lie about it. At $5/8ft board you'd think I paid for the full 1.5. Edit: I mixed up nominal with actual.
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this post was submitted on 07 May 2024
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Mildly Infuriating
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I'm going to guess they can get away with this because 2x2s aren't intended for structural use. I've never built one into a floor, wall or ceiling.
Used for furring strips everywhere. Line a block wall with them and sheet it for example.
To someone from central europe it's always weird how houses get build from wood in the US. 😅 I imagine you can hear ~everything happening ~anywhere in the house?
Depends. The cheap houses, yeah, there's as fair bit of noise, but you can't hear everything. From downstairs, you can hear when someone walks across the room above you, but not when they're walking in other upstairs rooms. And from rooms on the same level, you can hear if someone is talking loudly in the room next door, but not enough to make out what they're saying unless they're yelling.
Well-built houses or buildings made for occupancy by multiple families usually have better sound insulation between the rooms/floors/units, so it's not always an issue.
Edit: the plus side to that is I know all the noises my house makes at night, so as a light sleeper, I know when something is wrong in the middle of the night, and I only need one decent sound system for the whole house, which is great for listening to records while doing housework.
Not really, unless the house was built incredibly cheaply with thin studs and crappy drywall.
Wood is pretty decent at blocking sound -- it the voids between the studs that's an issue. Filling them with sound deadening insulation solves that problem.
It's not as good at blocking sound as a masonry wall obviously, but it's "good enough" at a fraction of the price.
it's extremely common for americans to dismiss apartments because they simply cannot fathom the idea of housing that actually blocks noise, it's one of the primary arguments i see used against denser housing.
Yup. Over here in the Western US, nearly every apartment is built as cheaply as possible and run by slumlords that will do everything that they can to refuse to return deposits. Painting over bugs and black mold between tenants is the norm, in my experience, not the exception. Add to that that insulation between apartments is scant, if present and frequently there are no physical barriers between apartment building attic accesses (in every top-story apartment that I've been in, it would be easily possible to gain access to others' apartments via the attic and the attics also act to channel sound between all top apartments).
I want to say that stick-built homes are really not so fragile as people seem to think. There's tradeoffs, of course, and ways to build them that make them uncomfortable at best and blatantly unsafe at worst. That being said, they're pretty sturdy, fairly easy to repair and modify, and relatively quick and cheap to build.
It's a big improvement from making them from straw.
I spent a few nights in a straw bale home, wanting to experience what they were like. They are incredibly quiet. Each bale is 1.5 ft of soundproofing/insulation. The loudest part of the house was the clock ticking. The house was heated by appliances such as the refrigerator and water heater. A local monastery built several to rent out for people wanting a tranquil contemplation.
Would you call that a "structural use?"
Structural use means load bearing. So no.
Furring strips are used in plenty of places, I provide one example where it is used in most residential homes to support drywall.
Is it not structural if it’s holding ceiling drywall…? So why are people still bickering that walls aren’t structural when they still hold drywall up…?
If it’s part of a code wall detail, would that not be structural…?
What’s with the pedantism over something like this to try and save face over not knowing what a furring strip is?
No, that’s is not structural.
Structural means it’s intended to support and transfer loads in a way that cannot be safely removed.
Since neither the furring strips or drywall are part of a structural requirement, they are not load bearing.
Drywall is structural, when used on block walls it helps provide lateral support.
This is why being pedantic usually backfires.
Drywall is inherently structural.
Regardless. It’s furring strips, you want to argue furring strips aren’t used in structural applications? They are used in all three applications the person said they haven’t used them in. They also claimed to be a wood wroker elsewhere, so I don’t see how they would use anything structural anyways….
No shit. You're giving us a master class on it right now.
Drywall is not structural on block walls. The blocks are structural themselves.
The drywall may help minimize shifting/settling but the dreary is not a structurally required component of the block wall.
What’s that got to do with furring strips that can be used in structural drywall applications? We are getting too far from the original point.
You agree drywall is structural and that’s all that matters to this discussion.
And yes, if the furring strips and drywall are detailed in the plan, they are structural components since it has to be built as designed.
Just because they can also be used in non-structural uses doesn’t negate their structural use dude.
Dry wall is not fucking structural. Jesus. Doesn't even have the integrity to compress too thick of insulation without pulling through the screws.
Absolutely incorrect
Yes, it provided load support but it’s not providing structural load support…..
To be extremely clear, your own, provided definition, is not talking about structural components.
Yes, on an interior, non-structural wall drywall can stiffen the structure. No, that does not mean the drywall is structural.
You’ve never heard of a drywall shear wall…?
God, why is so hard for people to accept drywall is structural lmfao. It’s not stiffening it, read the provided link it explains it quite well multiple times with extra resources for you to follow up if you choose.
Every component we have talked about can be used structurally, I’m sorry you just apparently haven’t encountered one of the over 1500 different wall assemblies that use them…?
Well, you’ve changed the goalposts from drywall on furring strips to a shear wall.
Uhhh what…? I was explaining how everything is structural while you kept moving the goalposts away from furring strips being able to be used structurally. Yeah I picked a not so great example, but they are still fucking structural components lmfao.
Give your head a shake.
Most places that we're going to talk about have an electrical code as part of the building code. Is electrical wiring structural?
Did you respond to the wrong comment or something?
No.
Okay then, that has nothing to do with whats being discussed, but you’re free to comment about electrical I guess.
I thought we were discussing what qualifies as structural. I guess we're just talking about whatever you feel like talking about.
I’ve been defending my points about how certain components of structural assemblies are structural.
You can also use a sheet of plywood in non-structural ways. No different than claiming that these furring strips and sheets of drywall aren’t structural. I can point out plenty of places where plywood isn’t structural, but that doesn’t change that it’s still used structurally.
I think this thread is being taken over by people with zero education on this subject. What’s with all the insults for pointing out the painfully obvious? Oh that’s right, people don’t like being proven they are dumb and lash out as a last result. That’s right.
Blocked.
But, furring strips don’t have the integrity or quality control to be structural components. Part of why they’re so cheap is because they’re complete junk structural.
I think might be confusing furring strips (a specific type of wood product) with anything laid against another structure (brick wall, studs, etc).
Why do you claim that? Lots of assembly details call them out.
They aren’t cheap though? Almost all dimensional lumber is paid by the board foot. A 2x2 furring strip is about 50% the price of the same length 2x4.
Why are you being continuing to be disingenuous and still moving goal posts…? They are absolutely structural. They are used to hold up ceiling panels, which is always a load bearing structural use.
I just realized that you’re confusing gypsum board with drywall. While they are similar, gypsum board can be used for the loads you’re describing.
Drywall, however, cannot.
Uhh… what…? They are the exact same product. You’re gonna have to provide a link for this one lmfao.
Are you seriously just going to throw shit at the wall and move every goalpost to try and save face now? Jesus fucking Christ lmfao.
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I feel like yours still going to make an idiot of yourself after this comment as well.
I'm not an architect, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn.
The easiest way to think about an element being "structural" or not is is to consider what can happen if you remove that element - will the roof/wall collapse on top of you or not. If the answer is no, the roof/wall will not fall down, it's not "Structural" or "Load Bearing" If the roof/wall can fall down on if you remove it, it is "structural" or "load bearing".
So, using your example, if you were to remove the drywall and furring strips from that cement block wall, will the wall and ceiling be in danger of collapse? If it is, then it was structural. If not, then it wasn't structural.
The Architects and Civil Engineers that I have known, do not consider drywall or furring strips to "structural" when designing a building. I'm going with their consensus on this matter.
Jesus Christ, just because it can be used in non-structural application does not mean it can’t be used structurally else where. It’s also hilarious that you think we are ever going to think this has come up in a conversation before lmfao. You clearly are already taking out of your ass, but I’ll bite since the idiocy people are coming up with is entertaining as hell….
Furring strips and drywall are both used in structural applications since they are both structural components.
If a ceiling is strapped with them to provide lateral support and the ceiling is also cladded with drywall for additional lateral support. Congrats, both just got used in a load bearing application… I’m sorry apparently the architects and engineers you use haven’t come across this very common application?
You clearly have no clue on the matter lmfao.
Furring strips and drywall don't count as load bearing. Structural means that it carries the weight of the overlying structure. Basically if the building falls down if that element is missing, it's structural. So staircases for instance are almost never structural. Many interior walls are not load bearing so they can get knocked down without consequence. You can also split a room by building a wall that won't be load bearing.
Except for the thousands of use cases where they are used for lateral bracing to support the structure….
Like in shear walls… strapped drywall ceilings… load bearing walls….
Yes they can be used non-structurally, I’ve never claimed otherwise, yet you are ignoring the fact that they can, and are used in load bearing structural applications…..
That was one example, you can also strap roofs to install sheet metal cladding. Is that not structural? Strap a ceiling? There’s a ceiling use for you.
I figured if I gave you a real world example you could do a little research of your own. Even googling 2x2 will get you a big box store furring strip page. You should know what furring strips are if you are in the industry.
No, that’s not structural since the furring strips are not integral to load bearing capacity of the structure.
In your sheet metal example, they are only there for visual reasons - to help keep the roof flat. The roof can be put down without the furring strips. It might bend, but it still function as a roof.
What…? Roof trusses go parallel with the length of the cladding panel, you require furring strips on the perpendicular to install them. Just like in a wall with the studs vertical, you need horizontal furring to install them.
These required larger furring strips due to truss spacing.
Furring strips are not visual lmfao. They are structural components in a lot of assemblies. Without knowing the assembly you can’t say if they are or aren’t structural, that’s the entire point I’ve been trying to make here. You aren’t the quickest one are you? I’ve pointed this out multiple times. There are thousands of use cases where furring strips are structural. To say they aren’t structural is fucking asinine lmfao.
Those aren’t furring strips in that photo. That’s dimensional lumber. In this case, those spans are large enough that they require the strength of actual lumber.
Yes I literally just explained that in detail in the comment you responded to…..
Can I just ask for clarification?
You: here is furring strips being used as support, with a screenshot
Other Poster: the things you are referring to as furring strips, are actually not furring strips
You: Thats what I said in the first post!
Aren't you agreeing here that you are mistaken on what a furring strip is?
If the trusses were closer together you would use the 2x2 furring strips since it could support the weight. Since it can’t support the weight you need to use 2x4s so the picture isn’t showing 2x2 furring strips but if you aren’t a fucking moron you would realize that’s where they are used.
Buddy got caught saying something structural isn’t, so now they’re throwing shit at the wall to save face. And unfortunately down in this part of the thread is all the the fucking morons.
People in the industry would know what I was talking about, clearly it’s a bunch of people who aren’t since I apparently need to explain it in this section like people are 6 years old.
2x2 furring strips are fucking structural and are used in thousands of uses where they are structural. Yet this moron is claiming they aren’t lmfao. You guys are fucking idiots lmfao.
I dont really have a leg in this race, it does seem like throughout this thread you do showcase a lot of working knowledge.
Gotta say its confusing figuring out what the actual issue here is in coming to an understanding.
Furring strips can be any material, plywood, 2x4, 2x6.
I think people are getting stuck on the 2x2 furring strips being the only type of furring strip, which isn’t the case. You can just use 2x2s in a lot of cases, and there is a specific product called furring strips to use for furring or whatever else you want.
Some people even buy 2x4s and rip down their own furring strips of 2x2 if the span doesn’t need the 4 inches.
Good to know, thank you for sharing!
Closest I ever got to construction work like that was working for about a year as a residential painter, and sometimes would work alongside other contractors.
I really need to make woodworking/carpentry my next thing to learn about, plenty of places in my house could use the work.
Sounds like the situation here... good call