295
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 02 Jun 2024
295 points (96.8% liked)
politics
19246 readers
2775 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
I still can’t fathom how he became president. He acts like a toddler
Because that's conservatives level of understanding of how things actually work. Toddlers don't understand that other people are also conscious beings with feelings, thoughts, and different experiences. (I actually know many toddlers that are more empathetic, communicative, and understanding than the average conservative.)
There's a piece of that but I don't think that's the largest reason Trump was elected. The largest would be...wait for it... income inequality! Follow me here for a minute. There are large numbers of Americans that are increasingly at the short end of the stick with GDP consistently rising, but their personal finances struggling and under fire worse every day. Part of the non-conservatives voted for Hilary pragmatically hoping for the scraps of social reform that Democrats are able to get passed into law. The other, and larger part of the non-conservatives, heard Trump the words that were lying to them telling them that they are poor because of immigrants and (oddly) spending on social programs that doesn't benefit that specific voter.
Honestly the biggest divisions aren't between Democrat and Republican. Those issue are mostly symptoms of the wealth inequality. The biggest division is between rich and poor. I think if those that voted for Trump were doing even moderately better financially, they'd be less concerned about someone below the poverty line getting a cell phone subsidy or child care credit.
Poverty is indeed the root cause of many societal issues, but it still boggles the mind that the answer to "income inequality" is "vote for the billionaire".
The mind-boggling thing is that he is a lifelong fraud and con man with zero attempts to hide it. The cultists still said shit like, "run America as a business." And he did run it like one of his businesses. Used it as a vehicle to accept dirty money from Russia while he golfed or watched TV all day.
I’m a conservative and I don’t think like that…
To confirm what you mean by "I'm a conservative", which of these commonly held "conservative" beliefs (each which implies a lack of empathy) do you not subscribe to (i.e. "I don't think like that...")
I don’t subscribe to any of these. I believe in traditional American values:
-Political parties are terrible for the US
-The government is for the people and as such should represent the people
-We should fight for the right to disagree with each other
-The Senate should represent the states and not the people
-The right to vote is fundamental to a democracy
-Religion must stay out of government
-You are free to have your opinion, you are not free to force your opinions on others
-We have a fundamental right to firearms for state militias
-Laws should be passed by congress. We shouldn’t have huge changes in law via SCOTUS
I would argue that "the right to vote is fundamental to a democracy" has never been an American conservative ideal. Conservatives have always tried to limit the number and kind of people that can vote and still do: non land owners, ex-slaves, black people, women, ex-felons, and all minorities now. Conservatives have also made a very successful effort to limit the relative power of people's votes when it doesn't suit their agenda through gerrymandering and unequal representation.
Also, really not sure what "the Senate should represent the states and not the people" means. Like it should represent the land? Not the people inside the state?
Before the amendment that made senators elected by the people, they were essentially delegations from the state. Each state having 1/50 of the representation. Changing to elected is stupid. Why do the people of Wyoming have the same representation as the people of California?
The people of Wyoming don't have the same representation as the people of California. They have way more relative representation. That's saying that rural votes mean more than urban. A Wyoming resident has 3.6 times more voting power than one in California.
Sorry, I misstated that fact. You are correct. It’s ridiculous though
Say you don’t understand a bicameral legislature without saying you don’t understand a bicameral legislature.
I agree with all of this, but I am not even remotely conservative. You're either omitting important details here, or you're simply not conservative.
For example, conservatives are against dismantling the electoral college, and they are one of the most aggressive abusers of gerrymandering. This flies against your belief that the right to vote is fundamental to our democracy.
You also say the government should represent the people, yet conservatives are at the forefront of things like overturning Roe v. Wade, which is an event that the grand majority of Americans did not want.
The religion staying out of government line is hilarious. That's 100% against modern conservative values. That's one of the biggest staples of the GOP.
I’m a second generation immigrant from a non-Christian country. Therefore, I hold none of the anti-abortion or Christianity in government views. I also do not equate conservatism with the GOP. Hell, with the new branch of MAGA republicans, the GOP is becoming a far right party.
I disagree with gerrymandering. The people need to be represented. I’m on the fence about the electoral college. It’s supposed to guard against populism, yet Trump got elected.
Not kidding, at least 7 of these bullet points sound "wacko extreme-left" by the standards of American politics. The modern conservative version is:
Party over principle
Government exists to protect the prerogatives of the people at the top of the hierarchy
No dissent allowed
The vote must be restricted to people who vote as we like
Christianity is the basis of government
Government control over the most fundamental of opinions, like about one's own personal identity
The well-regulated militia clause is moot, the right to arms is absolute
SCOTUS can make profound changes at will, even to the Constitution itself
The above is what most people think when they hear "conservative" these days.
You don’t have to be Republican to be conservative
True, but if you call yourself conservative while espousing views that society at large views as somewhat left-wing, you'll constantly need to explain yourself.
I am a far-left progressive and hold every value you listed. Can you tell us why you believe you are conservative and not progressive?
I’m a second generation immigrant from a Christian minority country. I don’t allow my personal opinions to influence good policy:
-I am against abortion. I am also male, so I will never get one. I understand that I am not all knowing or all seeing. There are circumstances I could have missed and therefore it needs to stay legal for those purposes.
-I don’t think the country is ready for electric vehicles. The infrastructure simply isn’t there to support it and the current administration is putting the cart before the horse.
-I don’t think debt forgiveness for student loans (or PPP for that matter) is a good idea. More education for students to not sign these contracts is needed. I would remove the interest or allow the interest to be the same as inflation to account for the lack of education but I wouldn’t forgive it altogether.
-I believe that strong antitrust laws are needed to ensure competition and laws for the public good must be enforced. However, I believe that otherwise the free market will take care of itself. In other words, there’s no such thing as too big to fail.
Also as a big caveat, I was a conservative in a very liberal city. That may also be why we have a lot of matching values.
Your are right about not being a typical conservative. Hell, I would say you are nothing like any conservative I have ever met.
-There is only one bad political party and them their is the demonrats
-The government needs to listen to its backbone like it's farmers and ranchers who produce all our food
-We should fight to force Americans to agree to our latest cultural war issue which is (checks notes) trans pro-palestine homeless immigrants athletes.
-The senate keeps a check on the liberal infested congress and helps prevent the people from inflicting their whims on the wealthy
-The right to vote should be suppressed when it is convenient and gerrymandering should be used to dilute any minority voting power.
-Religion, just like our moral and values, should be intertwined with the government. Freedom to spread Christian religion but not freedom from religion.
-Ending differing viewpoints such as woke culture is the only way to save America. We have to cancel woke
-Firearms are the only thing that separates the good guys from the bad. There would be no school shootings if every child was armed and trained to shoot.
-Laws should be written by our corporate overloads. SCOTUS will save our country now that we have packed it full of god-fearing conservatives
FTFY
This is not a conservative platform.
I’m not looking to get radicalized, nor am I looking for an echo chamber
I understand what you mean, but that's beside the point really.
Your list above is not actually consistent with conservative politics in the US.
For instance, you said:
The Republican party says:
In practice, "ensuring the integrity of our elections" means voter suppression, which is diametrically opposed to the idea that the right to vote is fundamental.
For another example, you said:
The Republican party keeps doing things like this:
Texas education leaders unveil Bible-infused elementary school curriculum
So again, my point is that your ideals are not actually aligned with conservatism in the US.
You don’t have to be Republican to be conservative
I understand why you consider yourself a conservative, but the modern Republican party does not share your ideals.
I’m technically a conservative leaning independent. They’re not my allies.
How can we get your people to rise up and resist this dipshit? What's your plan for November?
Unfortunately the answer is Biden.
I’m not a typical conservative though
You should make peace with that, and accept that the real values that represent the end game of conservative politics have finally shown themselves. There is no going back.
I stand by my conservative values. Most of the conservatives that think like me are Democrats now
Correct, which is further dragging the Overton window to the right. Everything conservatism touches is tainted, and ultimately destroyed. It is a self-defeating philosophy.
I’m not going to judge by presidents I haven’t experienced first hand and I’m relatively young, so I’m going to have to go with Bush Jr
You asked me which is my favorite Republican. In my life time there have been two: GWB and DJT. You didn’t say which was my favorite president, just Republican. I chose the better of the two choices, in my opinion. Would you prefer Trump?
Or are you admitting that you asked a bad faith question? Keep in mind you didn’t ask which one I thought was good, just favorite of a subset
You are conflating conservative and Republican.
You can be a conservative without being a Republican. I don’t play party politics. Voting for (R) without looking at actual beliefs and policies is just as stupid as the “vote blue no matter who” policy.
To be completely transparent, I don’t have a favorite. The most sane one was probably Obama.
If you had empathy, you wouldn't be a conservative. I could go with a bunch more, but that pretty much covers it.
This kind of thinking is eradicating moderate conservatives and liberals.
You're off by a few years, but only a few.
https://theweek.com/speedreads/575962/donald-trump-tells-biographer-hes-same-now-first-grade
So does his base!