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Outrage over ‘massacre’ in Gaza as Israel rescued four hostages
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2024
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Why were they holding military hostages in a refugee camp?
Because Hamas is just a shitty as Israel. The only difference seems to be that Israel is far, far more effective.
And that Hamas keeps military hostages in civilian refugee campus.
Yes pretty shitty isn’t it.
Do you think it’s an acceptable response to murder 274 other innocent people to save those 4? Are Israeli lives worth more than Palestinian lives to you?
Of those 274, I wonder how many of those will now want to join Hamas for vengeance against the people that killed their families.
Hamas could have just let the IDF and the rescued hostages go. Instead, they chose violence... with predictable results.
Several deals to release the hostages have been rejected by Israel, like this one .
If you want to play they could have done that game. Then Israel could not have stolen land for decades and kept people in essentially an open air prison. The vast majority of Palestinians didn’t vote for Hamas, as they were children the last time there was a vote.
You’re justifying the murder of innocent people as retribution for the murder of innocent people and I find that deplorable. As do the ICC, ICJ, and everyday more and more governments.
Yes, Israel rejected the deal because they want Hamas destroyed, either as an unconditional surrender by the remaining Hamas fighters or as some kind of 'Alamo' last stand by Hamas. If the IDF fails to make further progress, they may reconsider the deal.
Israel has the land it has as the result of coming out on top in previous wars. Israel won't give up any land until a genuine peace deal is achieved, which isn't likely anytime soon, since Hamas explicitly rejects any kind of peace deal with Israel, only cease - fires.
You are correct that many Gazans were children the last time elections were held in Gaza, but according to opinion polls taken shortly after the October 7th attack, about 70% of Palestinians (both in Gaza and the West Bank) support the attack on Israel and the taking of hostages. You reap what you sow.
I'm not justifying the murder of anyone. Hamas wants civilian casualties (involuntary martyrs) so as to elicit sympathy from the world.
Sadly, there will be future civilian casualties in Gaza in the coming weeks and months unless some drastically changes or Hamas surrenders.
Do you really think you can eliminate Hamas? How did it go for the Americans in Afghanistan and the Taliban? You can’t eliminate an ideology.
In fact the more innocent people you murder the more you secure the next round of recruits, when people have nothing left to lose they will seek vengeance.
Israel is just sick enough to honour that goal I see.
I’ll await the ICC and ICJ outcomes. The fact is Israel is an apartheid state and has the support of the world to commit a genocide.
I don't "think" anything. I'm just repeating what Israel has been saying since last October. I'm no expert in tunnels, tunneling or tunnel warfare, but I believe all of the tunnels are now mapped out and the vast majority of Hamas' fighters are trapped underground, so I would presume it is a matter of will plus endurance if the IDF can achieve its goals, but even if the IDF does defeat the Hamas fighters in Gaza, the Hamas leadership lives outside Gaza (Qatar, i think), so the fight will probably go on, as long as Hamas' leadership still exists.
"In fact the more innocent people you murder the more you secure the next round of recruits". Israel tried to co-exist with Hamas in Gaza for close to 2 decades. The October attacks were the result. The vast majority of Israelis want revenge and are out for blood. They may be adopting the Roman strategy of "Let them hate us, so long as they fear us."
I just read that a cease-fire resolution is making its way through the UN and that previously Hamas accepted the terms and Israel said it would. It has 3 stages, with the 1st stage involving the exchange of hostages for Hamas prisoners. I honestly think Israel will break the cease-fire after they get their hostages back.
It's an easy prediction, but I predict more misery for Gaza in the coming years, no matter what options Hamas and Israel choose.
The agreement I posted the link to is the one you’re mentioning isn’t it?
Do the zionists play no role in why Hamas has done what they have done?
In all honesty the situation is fucked and it’s a result of my government giving Israel someone else’s land in the first place. For centuries Jews and Palestinians lived peacefully together until the Israeli Zionist’s started taking more and more land. Which resulted in Hamas being born and the many one sided wars that proceeded. Ultimately my sympathy lies with the Palestinians more than the Israeli settlers and there really isn’t a solution as Israel have had a blood lust since WWII which is strange as you would think that people that went through that wouldn’t become the monsters that tried to wipe them out.
If you’re curious about reading more on the Palestinian point of view I would recommend Norman Finkelstein, a very educated Jewish person who has studied this his whole life. There are plenty of Jews in and out of Israel that don’t support these actions and Tel Aviv regular has protests against the war. They could have had their loved ones back months ago, but Bibi is a vengeful bastard and has the backing of other vengeful bastards in the USA.
The second the USA left Afghanistan the Taliban was back and the same will be true for Hamas. The best thing Israel can do is stop the settlers, give Palestinians a fair shot at life and they will vote out Hamas themselves. Or they can go to war with the entire Middle East of which they will not win unless they drag the west in too.
Ahh.... I had forgotten your link from earlier. Yes, it is the one you posted.
I agree with you the shenanigans of the settlers... their constant 'settling' only aggravates things. It was explained to me that since only truces and cease-fires exist between Israel and Palestinians, there are no fixed borders, so the land is up for grabs. Once a peace treaty is signed and borders are established, then the settlers will be removed. I understand the reasoning, but I'm not so sure just how smart this strategy is.
Where else would it be safe to hold the hostages? The rest of the area is getting bombed to oblivion. Most of the hostages are probably under rubble.
Israel detains many Palestinians including hundreds of minors without charge, on bases right in the middle of civilian towns. Heck, IDF headquarters is right in the middle of a civilian neighborhood in Tel Aviv. Does that mean Tel Aviv is a legitimate military target?
To maximize civilian casualties, obviously. Hamas profits off the deaths of Palestinian civilians, so why wouldn't they want civilians to die?
They're now trying to come up with a justification to attack the pier Biden installed to prevent aid from getting in. So Palestinians will starve. Then people will be outraged and donate more money to Hamas. There's no downside for Hamas psychopaths.
Yep, and the agencies disseminating these things come from a typical cast of characters (hello Turkey and Iran!). It's great that more aid is getting to Palestinians.
https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2024/06/09/3100535/us-built-pier-used-in-israel-s-brutal-nuseirat-camp-attack-in-gaza-report
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-support-israeli-forces-rescue-hostages-gaza/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/tasnim-news-agency/
Edit: people down vote exposing Turkish state media :)
Where would you prefer they hold them? I mean it's not like Israel has left them any other choice.
*** And I'm not saying I agree with taking/holding hostages. I'm simply responding to the question you asked.
Maybe in a sectioned off portion of their tunnel system, one where Hamas fighters are defending them without Palestinian civilians in between. I haven't heard of Palestinians being allowed to camp out in there, so that might be a better place to keep hostages than apartment buildings. They could then keep fighting segmented more easily I would imagine and preserve more civilian lives.