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this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2024
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If you're a progressive, Biden has been the most progressive president since Kennedy. Lol.
If you're not. Are you willing to have American democracy end, because you personally weren't courted by the president?
Knowing EC, it's very much the latter. In fact I suspect you should expect to be called a genocide supporter by them. Since you have dared not say something horrible about Biden.
What's EC? Electoral College?
Ahhh gotcha. Yeah I'm new to the site as a reddit exile and still figuring out everything here.
Yeah, those people are just tiresome, and they have no idea how geopolitics works. It's annoying, and one of the effects of republicans cutting funding for schools and not teaching civics anymore.
I agree. And welcome to Lemmy 🙂 yesterday was my first anniversary of joining. It's a very different place from Reddit. But it still has a lot of similar problems unfortunately. However quite a bit more can be done about it. So it's definitely worth sticking with
That's good to hear. I had my 7 year reddit account permanently suspended for sarcastically making fun of the bot infestation, so fuck them.
Yeah, it's different but it feels like an 'older' forum which is definitely nice!
As someone who was on Reddit before the Dig migration. Lemmy definitely has a similar feel to old old Reddit. We'll see if it changes. It's still definitely a culture shock though. Reddit being so heavily right-wing aligned. And lemmy being the opposite.
The sheer amount of dismissiveness towards the propaganda brigades and the moderators with an agenda was pathetic. I messaged admins numerous times and the universal response was shrugging their shoulders. It's so dumb.
It's definitely a challenge for the future here on lemmy. But with it's decentralized nature and ability to Confederate I think it at least as some better Baseline tools. Though it also has some pretty glaring flaws that could be used as a fire hose of falsehood in the short term.
Yeah we'll see how it goes. So far it's been fun. I wish there were a few niche activities that I like that were more active here but that's okay!
Purported positions?
Fuck, tell me what my positions are, wise and ancient omniscient one.
I do want to stop the genocide you support by refusing to call it a genocide.
The best solution involves Biden ceasing his support for the genocide that you also support by refusing to call it a genocide.
You baselessly insulted me by calling me a child. And then lied and said it wasn't an insult.
I call it genocide all the time sweetheart. Care to try again?
Biden could stop his support tomorrow that's not going to change congress. Who is the actual problem here. And that's exactly my point. Thank you for proving it for me again. Oh and go check my post history I call genocide all the time. The fact that you thought this was some big dunk that you had finally gotten. Pretty hilarious. Also pretty immature but expected :-)
I said you were behaving like a juvenile / adolescent. Not a child. Which you are even here. If you aren't actually that young and just behaving like you are. That's a you problem kiddo.
Then call it a genocide right now. Say that the actions of Netanyahu that Biden supports are a genocide.
Congress didn't force Biden to sell Netanyahu weapons for genocide. Congress didn't force him to claim there was no genocide. Congress didn't force him to go to bat for Netanyahu at the UN for so long.
I checked. Three whole times in the past month, and two of those were denying that Biden supports Netanyahu's genocide. We have different metrics for "all the time."
Condescension is what centrists use as their replacement for defensible positions.
Then you must be a centrist by your own weird metric because all you ever do is be condescending. And no, before you go accusing me, it's not a lie. Look at your own post history.
"Biden should stop supporting genocide" is a defensible position. I notice that my interlocutor ceased when challenged to call Netanyahu's actions the genocide they are.
Can you call it the genocide it is?
Again, condescending.
You refuse to call it a genocide. Noted.
Why would I answer a question coming from someone who isn't arguing in good faith? And I can give a rats ass about what you keep "noted", champ.
your accusation of bad faith is, itself, bad faith
And here comes the victimization.
🙄
Go back and read my previous reply.
I'm accurately describing what you're doing. If you don't want me to point out that you're using demeaning pet names, don't use them.
Anyway, I'm out. I'm not going to argue with a genocide denier.
You weren't here to discuss anything to begin with. Good fucking riddance.
And yet your only suggestion it seems is to yell at people to not vote, accuse anyone that IS voting of being a “gEnOciDe sUppOrTeR!” And generally just spread what appears to be mostly misinformation.
I have never done this and will never do this. You are lying about my position because you can't defend your own.
Forget Gaza for a second, what is progressive about KOSA?. What is progressive about getting rid of the ability to claim asylum?. What is progressive about labeling peaceful protests as against the law?
Biden may be better than Trump, but don't dare say he is more progressive that Kennedy - or even Obama.
Not the flex you think it is
LBJ was more progressive than Biden, and he took office after whom?
That's up for debate. For me, he's the most liberal since Kennedy but if you think it's LBJ instead, that's fine too!
Oh, he's certainly the most liberal since Kennedy. But he's not progressive except in the slogans of centrists.
I think that's a no true Scotsman kind of thing. Biden has done plenty of progressive policies. He's forgiven billions in student loan debt (and wanted to forgive more but R courts are political), he's passed infrastructure, and he's also passed some bills to keep the cost of medicine down.
Could he do more? Sure. If voters showed up at the midterms and gave him a D house, he could have done more. But they didn't.
Way too often, people let perfect be the enemy of good. Biden is good, not perfect.
Using a program signed into law by George W Bush. Does that mean Bush was also a progressive?
Biden passed comprehensive student loan forgiveness, and it was struck down by the supreme court for bullshit reasons. He's using the mechanisms of government that he can control.
Or did you forget that part?
No I didn't forget. But that's not what you were talking about. You were talking about the student loans forgiven during Biden's term. That's being done under the PSLF program signed into law by G.W. Bush in 2007.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Service_Loan_Forgiveness
If forgiving loans under this program is one reason to call Biden a progressive then the same would apply to Bush.
So I'll ask you again, was Bush also a progressive?
And you ignored my part of the conversation. He DID pass comprehensive student loan debt relief. Republicans used lawfare to halt the program.
Does that not count?
This was part of your conversation. You're just deflecting because you had no idea what the PSLF program was or how it came to be.
And no I don't give participation trophies to presidents. Especially when I suspect they wanted it to fail in the first place.
He literally passed a bill, and republicans used the courts to strike it down. Biden then uses the mechanisms of government he can control, and still helps SOME people
🙄
No he didn't. The attempted at student loan forgiveness you're referring to was done through an executive order. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
https://www.factcheck.org/2022/08/qa-on-bidens-student-loan-forgiveness/
Also, I suspect he fully intended for it to fail for two reasons.
Oh heaven forbid I mix up how he is trying to help people. Forgive my non-encyclopedic memory.
Biden also literally has changed his views as the times have changed. That's to be expected when the population shifts.
Oh is that what you call lying?
It's clear you know nothing about who Joe Biden is or what he has done. And you know what, that's fine! Vote for him. That's your right.
But if you're going to come into a conversation telling other people why they should vote for him don't be surprised when you get fact checked.
Sure bud whatever you say. Like you've never mixed something up before ;)
If Democrats had used the majorities we gave them during his first two years instead of getting in their own way, this would be a convincing argument.
They did use them as best they could. They were hamstrung by a filibustering Senate, and two conservative Democrat senators (Sinema and Manchin) who refused to support getting rid of it, making killing the proposition of killing the filibuster DOA. As a result, their only choice to pass legislation was budget reconciliation, which aren't subject to filibuster. The issue is that reconciliation has several big limits:
The bill has to be related to government spending, revenue, and the debt ceiling. You can't toss in things like minimum wage increases or voting rights legislation.
You can only pass one of these bills per year (theoretically you can do more, but additional reconciliation bills have to go through the budgrt committee and with a 50/50 senate the GOP can just skip those meetings to deny quorum and keep it stuck)
Whatever passes still has to get at least 50 votes, which means either appeasing Manchin/Sinema or getting Republican votes (which ain't gonna happen)
And despite that, we still got the CHIPS act, an infrastructure bill, and the Inflation Reduction Act, which--even with Manchinema throwing as many grenades in the process as they could get away with--was the biggest climate change bill in our country's history. Not perfect, no, but a sizable step in the right direction, for once.
That's what I mean by getting in their own way.
Biden had numerous accomplishments from his first 2 years, lol.
That's completely disingenuous.
That's why I said Democrats and not Biden.