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New German citizens required to affirm Israel's right to exist
(www.middleeasteye.net)
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this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2024
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Alright, lets wrap that up, shall we.
After looking at OPs comments and discussing with him it’s clear to me that he posted this article with a clear agenda.
If Israel’s right to exist is a controversial topic, I‘m out.
I have the opinion that it’s not antisemitism to call out an evil government and protest against its actions.
Getting flustered about Germany saying Israel has a right to exist and not understanding historical reasons why that is the case is just naivety I hope.
Bit of a double standard though, right? They don't have to affirm Palestinian's right to statehood. If not saying Israel is a legitimate state is anti-semitism, wouldn't that make the same stance toward Palestine islamaphobia?
Yes. It’s a Double standard. It was born out of history. Namely the genocide on the Jews by the nationalsocialists.
Germany doesn’t have a special history with Palestine, so they don’t get mentioned.
And yes, I think Germany should recognise a Palestinian state.
What does israel have to do with anti-semitsm?
You keep intentionally conflating Judaism and Zionism after been corrected.
Furthermore you don't appear to know the history of israel. Zionists had been colonizing Palestine years before Hitler came to power.
You got me. I do. I know there is a difference, but in my experience it rarely matters.
But that's the point. Recognizing israel is absolutely irrelevant to anti-semitism.
If anything israel using Judaism as a shield for their war crimes is the biggest cause of anti-semitism.
So this move by the German government does not combat anti-semitism. It creates anti-semitism by specifically calling israel a "Jewish" state.
I disagree with you.
It's not illegal to be wrong on the internet, but don't feel compelled to keep doing so.
You're free to say why
Many people in this thread don't seem to know this, but within German neo-Nazi movements that's absolutely wrong. Revoking Israel's right to exist is the number one talking point of the people doing hitler salutes again.
That's completely false.
The AfD obviously doesn't say the quiet part out loud, they're already on the brink of proceedings to be banned. I'm talking about actual skinheads.
I know what the AfD is. It symbolizes the situation perfectly. The biggest actual anti-semites are supporters of israel.
Because israel has nothing to do with Judaism. Israel is just classic white nationalism creating Lebensraum in the Middle East.
Sorry, but thats just not true. Read for example what the anti-semitism commissioner in Germany says about it: (translated from German obv)
Explain what is anti-semitic about saying Nazi white nationalist Apartheid terrorist state israel has no right to exist.
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free, by the way.
Because it's usually not said about other nations committing crimes against international law. Iran is allowed to exist. Russia is allowed to exist. North Korea is allowed to exist. Heck, Nazi Germany was allowed to exist.
The right to exist as a nation is such a fundamental idea to international law that I have to wonder how you would argue otherwise without stepping into genocidal territory.
And it is a bad look, to be completely honest, that of all nations is just so happens to be Israel to be the one country where people have continuously called for their destruction.
Israels current actions must be condemned, no debate there. And the German government should be louder in their criticism (although I can see why they of all governments have the hardest time doing so). But Israels right to exist has nothing, zero, to do with that.
This is a false comparison between countries and colonized land.
Nazi Germany was absolutely not allowed to exist. This is Nazi Germany:
Note how after Hitler got defeated we did not say "well Germany stole that land fair and square".
Israel is like Apartheid South Africa. A colonial Apartheid state on other people's land.
It should be no surprise that israel does not have a right to exist as it suppresses the native Palestinian population to create a white ethnostate. Just like the Apartheid in South Africa, israel should be abolished.
I'm not saying Israel should keep occupied land. At all. You're saying we should abolish the state entirely. Sorry, that's borderline genocidal. And not what happened to Nazi Germany either - it was occupied and then basically newly founded. What you imagine for Israel would be closer to a solution where the occupying forces in Germany after 1945, or maybe the surrounding countries, took their share of German territory for good. We wouldn't have a Germany today if that would have been the decision made back then.
And we wouldn't have Iran, Russia, North Korea, and a whole bunch of other nations with humanitarian violations either, even though you conveniently skipped that point.
All of Israel is occupied land so you are advocating to dismantle israel.
This is Germany's "special history" with the Palestinians being created right now. This. This supporting and enabling their genocide.
Fuck me, they're arguing States rights. Is there a playbook for this atrocity denial or what?
Instance checks out
Sorry, I don’t understand you. What do you mean?
Your comment contained an ad-hominem on the comment history of the poster.
The instance you are posting from makes this ironic in relation to the article.
They are saying that your answer is indicative of the attitudes prevalent of your home instance. It's a very common fediverse method of attempting to dismiss arguments that someone doesn't agree with but can't otherwise disprove.