1056
Warren Bill Would Overturn Supreme Court Decision Gutting Federal Agency Power.
(www.commondreams.org)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 23 Jul 2024
1056 points (98.8% liked)
News
23649 readers
2374 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
For anyone curious, this bill is fighting against the conservative SCOTUS decision that basically said fossil fuel and other companies don't have to listen to the EPA or follow environmental regulations if the company has a "reasonable"(undefined) argument against said regulation.
So this law should get made. Get made good.
Regulations are "unconstitutional"? Hmmmmmmm 🤔 Is SCOTUS bound by anything? Seems like they can rule however they like.
I think their argument is more that the agencies aren't allowed to be the ones to say how a law is applied as far as regulations go. If a regulation is vague enough the EPA isn't allowed to clarify anymore, it needs to go to a (more than likely rubber stamp) court where the judges decide, instead of, you know, anyone who would actually have expertise... It's legally "reasonable" but practically insane.
Why aren't the bodies allowed to say how relevant laws are applied? Isn't the whole point behind regulatory bodies that the government will grant regulators certain powers with legislation?
I'm not a legal expert, but in Australia at least there are a bunch of regulators that work to legislation, but they totally come up with extra clarifications and rules themselves within the powers they've been granted, and you are obligated to follow those rules.
For example: the fair work commission in Australia sets the minimum wage every year, no legislation required. Employers can't just decide they're unreasonable and not follow them, unless they want to be taken to court (or go to jail, in certain states like Victoria).
Now, I have no idea what the laws are that give the US EPA their powers, but either SCOTUS is totally out of line here, or the legislation sucks.
The (bullshit) scotus argument is that congress can't grant decision powers to federal agencies cause hurrdurr constitution.
Basically, for ~40 years we've run on a SCOTUS decision referred to as the "Chevron Decision." What that did is direct federal courts to defer to agencies on interpretations of relevant laws and statutes, because federal courts were being bogged down by every. little. bit. of. minutiae. around the practical application of a bills intention."Agency says brown, interested party says black, BOOM LAWSUIT" is an exaggeration but not by much. Instead, Chevron gives agencies the room for experts in the field to draft appropriate regulations etc in service of congress' bills. "Agency says brown, interested party says black, well too bad the experts say brown is the best choice." Can't tie them up in court over everything.
Now, with Chevron overturned, Republicans can start tying everything they dont like up in court again. Plus, with the hyper conservative activist SCOTUS judges, now they can run any regulation or policy straight up the appeal ladder to have them all ruled "unconstitutional" with only the occasional less important burner case turned down in a halfass attempt to look "impartial"
Thanks for the explanation! And boy, does that sound broken.
Breaking the system is the goal of the federalist society (which selected them recent conservative group of judges in the SCOTUS, and many lower courts).
Exactly, it allowed Congress to get a say, but they had to override it.
SCOTUS is unchecked by the rest of the federal government. The only thing that would limit their power is a constitutional amendment, which requires 38 states to individually ratify it at the level of their state governments, not their federal congresspeople.
There is literally no way for congress to affect the supreme court once it has 9 justices, or contradict its rulings on laws they call "unconstitutional", short of impeaching supreme court justices or packing the court with more than 9 justices. Once enough of the court is full of fascists or enablers, it's EXTREMELY hard to escape fascism without a constitutional convention.
You could instruct the federal agencies to ignore court rulings, effectively undoing Marbury vrs Madison.
That's a constitutional crisis, but what is the court gonna do? Call the FBI? Send in the military?
You can ask the Cherokee people what the court does with an uncooperative federal government, but you won't find any in Georgia.
Maybe that's just fascism with our side in charge though.
Yeah unfortunately once fascism sets in there's literally no way to get rid of it without using more fascism or violence. And considering that fascism necessarily requires the threat of violence, that previous statement can be simplified to "Fascism can only be defeated with violence"
flipping open my Lockean theory of self-governance
Strictly speaking, the power of government is in its ability to achieve (relatively) peaceful compliance. The SCOTUS decision creates an opportunity for individuals to behave in defiance of the written law with a certain fearlessness. A President can go full Andrew Jackson and tell the judges to enforce that decision, but he's still got to command a bureaucracy full of people who can be swayed in the other direction.
What happens to a regulation that nobody is willing to enforce? What happens to a federal regulation that runs afoul of state law, in a district where municipal/state law enforcement will enthusiastically arrest and local DAs prosecute a federal agent?
I would say that's the real power of the SCOTUS. Opening the legal door for disobedience and negligence at the federal level, while state-level revolt occurs downstream.
In theory that was supposed to be the strength of SCOTUS, that being secure in their employment for life (or until retirement), they had no incentive to judge along party lines for fear of future prospects. However, we've seen that judges can still be both very partisan and entirely unqualified and we can now do nothing to remove them. Turns out bribery and threats still work on them
The Loper Bright ruling was that when taken on appeal that the courts no longer have to accept a reasonable agency interpretation over a reasonable (or more reasonable) interpretation by the other party.
And the rulings isn't just for the EPA but all other federal agencies like the IRS, ICE, and the FDA. This bill is a double edged sword depending on who has the executive seat.
There's at least a possibility of the executive having enough expertise to regulate reasonably. The courts don't have the resources, but they've grabbed that power to themselves.
I mean that power was there since article 3 got drafted, and reaffirmed by the text of the APA.
The issue is the legislature not being able to pass laws due to the filibuster. This has lead to agencies being forced to take up their own interpretations to adapt language beyond it's original meaning to attempt to complete their goals, like w/ the Loper Bright case.
If the executive's rules leading to Loper Bright were not reasonable, the court wouldn't have had a reason to overturn Chevron in order to decide against it.
Edit: the fact that court first wisely delegated the power to set regulatory rules doesn't change the fact that they unwisely took it back.
I don't think for the court it was an issue of making wise policy choices but of who had what authority, and what did the law say about it. The court simply didn't have anything enabling them to delegate their powers in the Chevron case.
The separation of powers is core to the structure of our government, delegating powers onto other branches nullifies that. Hence the non delegation doctrine. Perhaps it [Chevron] may be good policy but it simply isn't how our government is structured.
They made up presidential immunity a few days later, then gave themselves control over it.
The court has a long tradition of deferring to the elected branches on matters of policy. This is based on the principal that voters should have a say. If a rule is reasonable under existing law, then changing it is properly the work of the legislature.
Not at all. It gives substantial power to the lower courts and strips it from the executive's cabinet secretaries.
For real. The regulations are the "reasonable" standards. If you can't meet the bare minimum you can fuck off.
Basically agencies were given power unchecked without passing any laws giving them that power. Supreme court decision was correct. Congress needs to get off their butts and get laws passed if they want them so bad, and stop relying on shaky historical precedents.
Kind of hard to pass bills when one political party is dedicated to nothing but corruption and obstruction but ok.
That's fine, that's why state and local governments exist, to implement what can't be decided on nationally.
Yes, it is hard to pass bills that only half of congress wants. Again, the system working as intended.
I honestly agree with the decision in a vacuum, but in reality I can't help but feel the decision was made very much with corporate interests in mind. Yeah congress should've gotten their ducks in a row long before now, but the real winner here is corporations, not constituents.