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In a 65-foot-deep tunnel in Rafah, hostages found executed by captors
(www.ynetnews.com)
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this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
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absolutely love how tankies in here are somehow turning this around to be Israels fault
Apparently nowadays anybody who's not a full blown Genocidal ethno-Fascist who approves when "their" people mass murder "human animal" children is a tankie.
It's like how anything left of center used to be deemed Communism in America, with the main difference that this is the ethno-Fascist (the most far-right violent kind of ideology there is) version so anything less than strong approval of ethnic Genocide is deemed Tankie.
It is classic to label and insult people with no value to discuss the main topic at hand. Especially when you call their hypocrisy of response in supporting Ukraine self determination and fight against Russia and their genocidal, demonic, support of killing innocent children in Gaza.
It's a very traditional Fascist technique (not only theirs but, damn, they do love it), to deem criticism of their actions to be motivated by the critics supporting an "enemy" side.
I'm not certain if that's because they're intellectually or emotionally unable to conceive that people can judge words and actions without putting "side" as the top criteria and hence will criticize equally what they see as wrong and point out relentless lying from specifc actors independently of "side", if that's because that's just the kind of argumentation Fascists get indoctrinated/teached to use, or both.
There is no inconsistency in their posture towards Russia and their posture towards Israel for somebody unable to conceive of any judgement criteria more important than "what is their side", since for them tribe is more important than everything and thus excuses everything, even mass murder of chidren.
Unsusprisingly, Zionist arguments are incredibly similar to the ones from the Nazis, including this beautiful example I commented on in my previous post, were the critics were deemed to be Communists, EXACTLY LIKE THE NAZIS used to do.
You're writing this under a Post of "your" people killing hostages. So if you don't support "your" people mass murdering "human animals", you should actually agree with me.
You're the one spouting tribalist shit - clearly you see Zionists as "your" people.
Tribalists always think those who are against the actions of "their" group or do not trust the words from the leaders of "their"group must do so because they support some "other", enemy people - a posture you consistently displayed in the way you tried "othering" critics of your favorite mass murderers on your first post by accusing them of being Authoritarian Communists and are trying to do the same to me on this post by implying I support Hamas.
Either you're too limited in your humanity to be aware that normal human beings generally hold Humanist Principles which are independent of tribe (such as "though shall not mass murder people because of their ethnicity") and hence their criticism is based on the character the words and actions of those they criticise (rather than be like you and put "side" above everything else including one's humanity), or you're just too lazy and repeatedly use the very old, very traditional Fascist "line of attack" (especially beloved of ethno-Facists such as Nazis and Zionists) of accusing critics of being part of some "out group" which the Fascists deem an enemy.
Oh really? I just stated neutrally that "Hamas killing civillians is Bad and none other than Hamas' fault."
You had to show up and make it all about teams justifying things.
Stop trying to gaslight me
Your whole post that started this thread is:
So just now you outright lied when your wrote:
Further, a person with a bunch of flags on their profile (for the record and in case you change it the flags are of Ukranie, EU, Taiwan and Israel) claiming they're not about "teams" is either a ridiculously self-deluded person or a shameless liar. People don't go around parading their favorite nations or blocks of nations when they're not into supporting "teams".
"This is Hamas Fault and Hamas' alone, no matter what tankies try to tell you"
Yes, both messages are the same. I'm the first I'm explicitly warning of a group trying to twist the narrative, but they're the same.
No, you can absolutely be neutral and have Flags and not be on Teams The EU Is my Team, the others are not. The others are symbols of who I think is innocent (or in the case of the middle east: less guilty)
I mean, I still hang up the Pride Flag during Pride Month, despite not being gay or anyhoe related to them or "on their team" simply because I, from my neutral position, have decided that their Position is the one I deem more "just"
Yeah, like... Somehow people are forgetting the terrorist organization that created the situation isreal is using as an excuse to commit genocide IS STILL A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION. I feel like people are projecting the US dem vs repub conflict on this, and feeling like because one side is bad the other side has to be good, rite? But in reality it's just a whole lotta murder. Pretty one sided sure but it's not like they're killing hostages in self defense. Not out here trying to be both siding but trying to look at things objectively and realistically and for some reason writing it as a public comment so people can yell at me for being antisemitic and antisemites can yell at me for not being antisemitic.
Says the guy who clearly doesn't know the foundational Israeli military groups who would later become the actual Israeli military were avowed terrorist organizations who routinely bombed civilians and murdered Muslims for being Muslim and against Israeli terror.
You speak out of my heart right now. I couldn't have put it into better words.
It got so bad, that I once saw a Comment unironically advocating for the genocide of all Israelis having 200 + upvotes. This was when I put the Israel flag into my Profile.
I'll let you in on a secret: The Israel Flag in my Profile? I'm actually very conflicted about Israel. But the way I was seeing Israel unrightfully being bashed, the Hamas terror organization advocating for the literal text-book-definition genocide of Israelis praised, I just felt I had to put it in there.
Anyways, yeah, I wish we could have civilized discussions about this. But I am afraid this isn't possible. For whatever reason, civilized political discussions aren't possible anymore in the english-speaking internet (the Swiss Internet is still somewhat uninfected, but it also seems to be getting worse sadly)
I wish I could just block politics in general, but I don't want to let the genocide-advocates to reign unopposed. I don't want their opinions to seem in any way acceptable.
Good on you.
I think people are trying to reduce the most complicated problems in global politics into a simple good guy vs. bad guy narrative and that leads people down to all kinds of crazy thoughts.
To me the real enemy is hatred. Hatred of Palestinians have resulted in Israel having the corrupt and incompetent leadership of Netanyahu. Hatred of Israelis has led Palestinian to corrupt and incompetent leadership of Fatah on the West Bank and the corrupt and genocidal leadership of Hamas in Gaza. Those promoting hatred of either side are just pushing for the conflict to continue and like all conflicts in densely populated areas, there will be a lot of civilian casualties. The claim to be very upset by the loss of life but their actions indicate they want it to continue until "their side" kills the other.
Also how do you get flags on your username? I think I'll put both an Israeli and Palestinian flag on mine. If people that hate the people of either place want to hate, then I'm fine with them hating me too.
But you're advocating for genocide?
Isreal is doing one so yes you are
Taking Israel's side is like taking Russia's side.
Both are objectively doing the same thing.
That is the Tankie position. End justifies the means. Fascism is justified.
It's you.
awful take
gaslighting a Nation into thinking they're at fault for you killing their people is fucking awful
Do you also think that the US is responsible for 9/11?
Or Russia is at fault for the Terror Attack on the Opera recently?
No, trying to twist the truth so that the anti-western side is the good one, trying to defend them, that is the real tankie stance
The US knew that a major attack was being planned by bin laden months before 9/11. Bush, purposefully or ignorantly, ignored or minimized these warnings directly leading to the attack.
There's also the aspect of it where the US funded and trained bin Laden prior to the attack because he was useful to us in the 80's.
And the US warned Russia of the Moscow Attack
Does that mean that the US/Russia is responsible for the Terror attack against them?
Please don't talk around it. "I think that yes/no [because ...]"
Because I think that Terror Attacks are always the fault of the Terrorists killing people
The same way I think that incidents of rape are always the fault of the rapist and never the victim.
Terrorism is politics by other means.
If you deny a people redress of grievances, say by refusing to participate in the international criminal court, you can't be surprised when desperate people act out of desperation.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
I'm not saying that it's right, but it certainly didn't justify the 20 years we spent playing in the desert, nor the genocide Israel is commiting on the Palestinians now.
If you have explicit knowledge that can save peoples lives and you choose not to act on it then yes you're directly responsible for that loss of life.
Pretty sure my take is the opposite.
But yeah if you think that we were blameless on 9/11 disregards the history of US foreign politicy.
And Israel? Pretty sure that the last 70 years of illegal occupation had nothing to do with October 7th, right? Or "self defense" lasting 11 months? Getting pretty close to operation Iraqi Freedom there bud.
Whatever the US may have done does not justify the killing of thousands of civilians. If that was the way the world worked than any civilian deaths the US inflicted after 9/11 are also justified by the same logic.
Rationalizations of terrorist acts is really insane. There's no moral high ground you can gain from this, the best you can accomplish is to say "both sides are bad" which accomplishes nothing.
Far better to denounce terrorism and work to make a distinction between the terrorists and people that have harmed who are not terrorists.
How many millions did we kill in revenge?
Many many times more. An eye for an eye leaves the world blind.
Israel is doing the same thing now. Only not even pretending to rebuild a nation.
This is where "But yeah if you think those countries weren't entirely blameless disregards these country's support of terrorism"
I won't though, because unlike you I don't think there's any valid rationalization for deliberately targeting civilians. That would just be me lowering myself to the level you lowered yourself to by rationalizing the targeting of civilians.
But you don't really have any kind of argument against killing civilians because you've already suggested that it's acceptable to do so.
Why don't you apply this to 9/11 and October 7? What al Qaeda and Hamas did are an "eye for an eye" mentality aren't they? Why not just do the sensible thing and denounce these "eye for an eye" actions as inexcusable?
So you're saying that genocide is okay if you agree with it? TANKIE DETECTED.
Um genocide is bad?