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this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2024
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No Stupid Questions
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No such thing. Ask away!
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It's not just you. Like many people that get sucked into cults, you don't want to directly engage with them. Just nicely encourage them to deprogram themselves, and focus on maturing and becoming an adult. They really don't like get called out like that, based on my interactions with them.
yes why would people get upset that you're being condescending and calling them either brainwashed or a child? one of the biggest remaining mysteries in the world really
So here's the thing. Hexbear has some smart people on it. @PugJesus@lemmy.world wrote a good comment over here that talks about how it's good that they can see injustices in the world and get pissed off: https://lemmy.world/comment/12220633
But cults suck in smart people, and they're very skilled at this. They feed off of righteous anger at the state of the world, and promise neat, easy solutions. And the issue is that you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into, especially people that suffer from black and white thinking. You can't talk about how the world doesn't neatly fit into tidy categories, because that's not as comforting as what the cult offers. The only thing you can really do is reinforce that they've fallen into a broken system of thinking, and encourage them to want to reason themselves out of their current position. Once that desire is there, they'll accomplish it all on their own.
communists don't think there are "neat, easy solutions" this is fundamentally a misunderstanding of our positions. this is the entire point behind why people constantly accuse tankies of being bootlickers and what not: we think transforming the world will be hard, and will involve making harder decisions than me you or anyone else on this website has ever or probably will ever have to make, and that mistakes that socialist states make in these circumstances are entirely understandable even though they are tragic. Of course, socialist states are evil or something which is totally not black and white thinking by your side, of course. America's enemies are totally doing worse things than america does which has very nuanced and reasonable reasons for overthrowing democratically elected socialist leaders or invading countries and killing millions of people to stop communism or even just general anti-colonial governments and replacing them with fascists and socialists and other anti-imperialists are evil barbarians with no nuanced reasons to try to use whatever methods they can to stop them. why am i arguing with such an obviously bad faith person what is wrong with me
The easiness of the solution isn't how much work is involved. By "neat and easy" I mean, "The root of all evil is capitalism and we solve that with revolution".
Black and white thinking pops up again. Why do you think I think socialist states are evil? Why do you think I think everything America does is reasonable?
It's another cult-like behavior that is rampant with tankies. "This person thinks this, so I will assign these other views to them as well, so that I may dunk on them".
This is exactly why they are responding to you as they are. This is not an accurate summary of the marxist position. You’ve built up a strawman to knock down to justify calling us cultish.
Some basic questions that marxists are concerned with:
Why is a revolution necessary to begin with?
Who is exploited, and who is the exploiter?
What material conditions are necessary for a revolution to be possible?
How do you organize society post-revolution?
How do you prevent those who oppose the liberation of the proletariat from taking over your post-revolutionary society and destroying it?
How do we learn from the successes and the failures of history so that we don’t repeat the same mistakes?
If you don’t understand the marxist position on these questions, yet continue to criticize us, then of course you will come to nonsense conclusions and just piss people off. You’ve made up a guy to represent us and then mock them.
this isn't what we believe once again. class society predates capitalism. you know nothing of marxist thought but arrogantly assign beliefs to us, but once again that is not "black and white thinking" on your part. we believe revolution is the solution because we believe that all evidence shows that the bourgousie will not let us take power peacefully, just like the bourgousie were forced to use violence to take power when they were oppressed by the aristocratic class. this is baby baby basic marxism and you don't even know this and yet you deign to talk down on us? it's pathetic, truly.
this is a thing literally everyone on the planet does. When you see someone say they think gay people should die, is it unreasonable to presume they are a reactionary conservative and assume they have other wack beliefs? I see you making a smug liberal enlightened centrist argument, and thus I assume you are a smug liberal with similar beliefs. Why would I put the effort into getting your opinion on every single topic. why would you do the same for mine? that's why you call me a tankie, isn't it? there is someone I got into a slap fight up with further in the thread that is a liberal and tried to make me mad by saying that putin "fucked male prostitutes". he assumed I would care because I am a "tankie". Do I see smug pricks like yourself going around calling his ass a cultist? No!
Yes, that's the issue.
That's on you for assuming that just because you don't like an argument it must be those smug libs.
I didn't call you a tankie, you self-identified as one
I call out silliness when I see it, but most lib stuff that I come across is of the bland, inoffensive variety. I haven't been checking this entire thread for everyone that's wrong, I've spent enough time on this already.
Where along the Marxist theory of the State with respect to Revolution do you begin to disagree? Fundamentally? Is it with certain aspects?
That's right folks, remember not to engage with any opposing ideology in an honest or intellectually rigorous manner! If someone is critical of your beliefs, it is important to simply ignore them and never seriously consider either of your positions.
Typical lemmy.ml comment, trying to make hexbears seem reasonable when they are definitely arguing in bad faith.
We don't have to feed trolls. You can't make us either.
It has nothing to do with "opposing ideologies", it is how you are behaving like toxic assholes 100% of the time.
So when people constantly call us deluded, cult followers, bots, shills, brainwashed, fascists, bigots, trump supporters, and any other number of dehumanizing insults, often coming into our spaces to do so, all the while themselves defending some of the most violent and evil people in history in the name of "lesser evil", are we supposed to just turn the other cheek and never respond in kind? When we witness the regular defense of the people ensuring the destruction of Palestine continues, are we supposed to just patiently and calmly explain how genocide is bad, actually? When dot worlders accuse me of faking being trans and being a privileged child, am I not justified in losing my temper? Y'all do not even try to understand where we are coming from, constantly use strawman arguments and put words in our mouths, but we're supposed to smile politely while you spit in our faces? Like this is literally a thread spawning from an OP that is just an ableist insult, and yet some of us are still in here trying to talk things out despite that!
And it's not like it's limited to Lemmy, right? Literally everywhere I go I have to either tolerate anti-communist red scare bullshit, transphobia, ableism, misogyny, etc., or I have to try and have stressful and exhausting conversations with people who never, ever take me seriously. So yeah, we're kind of on edge! If you get shit on for that when it wasn't deserved, then I'm genuinely sorry, and I wish it wasn't something that happens. But can you at the least understand that it is not a one-way street here?
lol, can't be bothered to read insaneposting. long live the eu