379
Mozilla hit with privacy complaint over Firefox user tracking
(www.reuters.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 25 Sep 2024
379 points (98.0% liked)
Technology
35158 readers
185 users here now
This is the official technology community of Lemmy.ml for all news related to creation and use of technology, and to facilitate civil, meaningful discussion around it.
Ask in DM before posting product reviews or ads. All such posts otherwise are subject to removal.
Rules:
1: All Lemmy rules apply
2: Do not post low effort posts
3: NEVER post naziped*gore stuff
4: Always post article URLs or their archived version URLs as sources, NOT screenshots. Help the blind users.
5: personal rants of Big Tech CEOs like Elon Musk are unwelcome (does not include posts about their companies affecting wide range of people)
6: no advertisement posts unless verified as legitimate and non-exploitative/non-consumerist
7: crypto related posts, unless essential, are disallowed
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
All the naysayers in these comments read like shills and if they aren't, they really should read how the tracking in question works. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/privacy-preserving-attribution?as=u&utm_source=inproduct
While it was kinda lame for Mozilla to add it with it already opted-in the way they did, they were still completely open about how it works from the start with a link right next to the feature in settings (the same link pasted above) and it's far less invasive than the other mainstream browsers.
It can be turned off too, easily. It requires unchecking a checkbox. No jumping through 10 different menus trying to figure out how to turn it off, like a certain other browser does with its monstrous tracking and data collection machine.
With ublock origin it's also moot, since ublock origin blocks all the ads anyways.
Call me a fanboy if you want, I wont care. Firefox is still the superior browser in my opinion.
I think a big part of the problem is that they didn't show anyone a notification or an onboarding dialog or whatever about this feature, when it got introduced.
or the least bad, as I have been thinking about it lately
Right. Not only didn't they notify anybody, but they took to Reddit to defend the decision not to notify anybody:
Which is strange, because Mozilla has no problem with popups in general.
Yeah, as I said it was pretty lame how they added it in. I will repeat that I think it's still not as bad as how other mainstream browsers add unwanted features but I'm out of the loop there and could be wrong.
Strange, only once do I recall seeing a pop up from Firefox, which was letting me know another browser was trying to become my default browser which I did not do or want. So in that case it was useful, as it was Edge and I did not want Edge to be my default browser. That was years ago, back when I still used Windows. Not saying it doesn't happen of course, you have links I could check which I assume show it does, but I have not personally witnessed it happen in a long time.
Librewolf
That's probably the better way of putting it. As far as mainstream browsers go.
Nah. Turning that feature on by default already set in stone for me their willingness to test the waters. If you don't think auto-enabling anti-privacy features is a problem I don't know what to tell you. It may be "small" right now, but just wait and see what else they will try to sneak in.
Use Librewolf and Mull instead.
And keep an eye on the Ladybird browser, eventually FF forks will die should FF go full-tilt enshittification, but hopefully not till Ladybird is fully ready
I use Mull on my phone. Haven't gotten around to playing with Librewolf but it is on my list of things to do.
I don't consider the addition to be an anti-privacy feature however. I'd like to see someone change my mind about that.
Any company that is willing to enable options (such as advertising) without users permission/consent is anti privacy. While it may not be a big deal for you now, wait to see what else they try to explain away. You act as if ublock is just automatically installed for users, thus making this not a big deal. what about the thousands if not millions of users on default firefox? The fact that Mozilla did this without letting the user know it is on by default, is inherently anti privacy. Hell I would argue turning it on by default is inherently anti privacy. Especially when they try to explain it away on reddit when they faced backlash. "There has to be a reason our users are upset? Am I the bad guy? No it's the users who are bad!" It is a reminder that no company is your friend. This is a test to see what they can and cannot get away with. A test to see if the users notice/if enough would really jump ship to create an impact on their product.
I jumped ship as soon as this feature was found. Fuck that.
Librewolf is fantastic, it's FOSS Firefox. I have had absolutley no issues getting firefox extensions to work with librewolf.
You seem to have misunderstood what i said. You fail to address the actual concept i refer to and the attitude with which you do this is not productive. it's insulting, assumptive and hostile.
are you sure you read my comment correctly? you spouted off about tangential issues in what appears to me, a sort of wild rage. you make an accusation and assumptions about me and how i act. you trash mozillas reaction to the outcry of their addition. you speculate a conspiracy theory about mozilla only trying to get away with stuff and hypothesize about them being ignorant and clueless.
i get it, you have strong feelings about privacy. you now hate mozilla for thier treachery. this was the final straw that made you jump ship. i'm glad you quickly found a browser that works for you. thanks for the unsolicited endorsement of your personal solution. good to hear that it has absolutely no issues with extensions made for firefox. which librewolf was forked from... so why wouldn't they? is getting in a one way shouting match meant to convince people to convert to another browser?
my statement was intended as invitation for someone to provide an argument as to how the actual addition to firefox is not privacy respecting, like the actual inner workings of it. not assumptions about its creators or their motives or the method of its introduction or how the nefarious villians behind such great injustice must be burned at the stake. not the far reaching ramifications it might lead to. what is it doing that makes one persons personal privacy specifically affected?
Please explain how I came off as insulting? Nowhere in my statement was it meant to come off as insulting. If you are referring to the quote "am I the bad guy" I was talking about mozilla and trying to use the principle skinner meme in text format. It was a joke. It wasn't directed at you. My entire point is to not trust companies. There is no good company. Mozilla was doing good things but the fact of the matter is they put in an unnessescary feature and enabled it by default. Giving users control of settings they want right out of the gate is pro privacy, when you start choosing what you think is best for the user. That is anti-privacy.
To you that is "kinda lame" but you then explain it away by saying "at least it isn't as bad as other browsers that make you jump through hoops!" That is where we fundamentally disagree. Bad is still bad for me, and my line is unmovable. Whereas for you there is a line you are willing to move. You asked me why it was inherently anti-privacy and I explained that any company willing to enable a slimy feature by default like this is on the path to become anti-privacy/already is. what you confuse for hostility was me informing you on my posiition.
This isn't some conspiracy theory, way to be reductive. Companies always require growth and profit. If you think this is a conspiracy theory I have no idea how we even continue this conversation. Mozilla doesn't give two shits about you or I. Google started off as a company with the slogan "do no evil" look at how that is going. Do you trust that Google still is doing no evil because they had a slogan? No, you don't trust Google because they have built up this anti-privacy reputation. That started with a simple search engine.
Mozilla is testing the waters in what they can get away with. I was trying to provide alternatives for people who like Firefox but don't know where to go. I am actually trying to provide solutions rather than explain away a companies behavior as you seem to be doing (And you called us the shills which is ironic). If you don't like this and are worried about the implications there are other options.
Jesus Christ and you called me assumptive. Did I say anywhere to burn the creators of the Mozilla CORPORATION at the stake? No. Did I say anywhere that I hate mozilla? No. Did I say anywhere that the creators of the Mozilla Foundation are "nefarious villains" ? No. Did I say anywhere about mozilla being ignorant and clueless? No. They know exactly what they are doing and that is the problem. I think that companies are emotionless entities that seek profit over well being.
Also where was this "wild rage" you talk about. TBH your reply is more insulting than my response. Talk about pot calling the kettle black.
Please tell me why this feature needed to be on by default? The absolute necessary reason this feature had to be turned on for every user. Why the user couldn't turn it on themselves? Do you think the user is too stupid to know what is best for themselves? If they came up with a pop up for you that says "this feature tracks you, do you want to enable it?" would you turn it on?
"not the far reaching ramifications it might lead to." Oh I get it, you only care if it is harming you now (which it is). Not what these actions could lead to in the future. You are like a frog in a boiling pot of water. The thing is this shit is gradual. My argument is simply stating that this is the start of something you may not want to be a part of in the future.
In the blogpost you link they specifically say that this feature tracks you but not in the normal cookie way you are used to. Tracking is still tracking and it's gross. Tracking is anti-privacy do you agree? Tracking should not be enabled by default. Period. Tracking as an out of the box feature and not something a user chooses to opt into is anti-privacy.
If you wanted a specific type of answer for your "invitation" then be more specific when you ask. You replied to me with that question, I gave you my answer and you didn't like it.
You still can't do it. this is pointless. have a nice day.
Again you just don't like my answer. Yet you have nothing to say about it being factually incorrect.
You too.
That's really the rub here. Reading the technical explainer on the project, it's a pretty good idea. The problem is that they came down on the side of "more data" versus respecting their users:
In short, they pulled a "trust us, bro" and turned an experimental tracking system on by default. They fully deserve to be taken to task over this.
is this something I need to do every single update?
The answer will always from now on be 'yes', for every annoying privacy invading toggle you have to change, it is in the best interest of the software creators to force you to do it in the way that benefits them most.
Our opinions are no longer as important as their ability to harvest our data.
Either you control your hardware and software OR some parasite does.
Your choice folks
Ok I'll just go grab some sand and refine it into silicon then bake my own chips then code my own kernel and OS and applications because that's the only way to 'control' it.
Companies need to be held to regulatory standards about our private data, and the ONLY reason those regulations don't exist is because every FUCKDAMN politician in the world was born before TV had color
This is how you get Temple OS
No, schizophrenia is how you get Temple OS
Mad dude made great OS due to paranoia...
No it was a shitty OS with very VERY little hardware support,
and he built it because the voices in his head told him to build a temple and he was too lazy to be a carpenter.
Have you actually installed it? Because I have. It's BARELY an OS
The 'security' mumbo jumbo is mainly to cover his networking incompetence
God damn my man... Hot take after hot take today haha
Everyone has the tracking turned off in Temple OS by default. That's why God doesn't find them. Just toggle on tracking
I don't disagree but bro... We both know dsddy Sam ain't saving Z slaves... This here country got elites with slaver mentality
It's mainly because of "perks."
Not if you switch browsers.
It's been a wild ride, but it's time to get off.
This is just the beginnings of the enshittification of FF. There are others out there, Ladybird for example, deserves our attention being built completely from scratch engine and all. Though it's not slated to become fully usable until 2026 because, they're building the engine from scratch lol
Amusing people of what you are guilty of. Sounds familiar...
Yes, how amusing indeed. Unless you meant to type 'assuming'? Either way, I'm more of a fanboy, not a shill. Shill's get paid. Fanboys just like their product.
Pest vs Cholera situation here...
Firefox should do an opt-in and they usually open new page with major updates with a pretty whats new changelog.
Just make it a headline topic ffs.
Regarding it's just clicking this one textbox:
Remember: Businesses also use Firefox. If you want to protect even a shred of your co-workers or clients you need to set up a fuck-load of tools to mass-disable this one little checkbox.
If it's added as already opted in, I assume they pop something up to make it clear what's been added and enabled, and how it affects the user's privacy, with a link to the settings to change it if desired?
If so, that's not too bad, no.
If they added it and didn't make it clear, or worse yet didn't call attention to it at all, that would piss me off.
They didn't, just like every other mainstream browser does. It was pretty lame. It was in the change notes but I don't know too many people that read those anymore. Their explanation of the system and the ease to turn it off placated me. I have the feature on and have had it on since the day it was released.
I find it kind of funny that your shared link url contain tracking parameters.
Oh, but when you say you can easily turn off all the crypto crap from Brave, the bitches start crying. And second, for some bitches, it seems like firing an employee who has cancer is better somehow than donating against same-sex marriage. There are levels of evil, and I know who’s the lesser evil between the two.
I will.
Same for Chrome.
This is a non-argument; uBO ins't even developed by Mozilla, so they don't deserve credit for it.
Is there any opportunity to rage about Firefox that you don't take? Seriously, so predictable
No, there isn't. Just block me.
Done and done.
If anyone is on the fence this absolute tool shed has this in their profile: