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‘They will vote against Harris’: Arab Americans in Michigan desert Democrats over Gaza
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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United States | News & Politics
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So, these individuals could be described as the common clay of the new West?
these folks are doing logical loop de loops
yeah man, denigrate them more, that'll surely get them on your side! maybe a touch more smug condescension? anything except engaging with their concerns, of course.
(your mask is slipping)
You see no difference between people put off by settler-colonial genocide and... settler colonists? What?
It's a movie reference. You should watch Blazing Saddles, it's very funny.
It's a great movie, I always tell people to watch it!
In the movie, this is a reference to the racist townspeople in the "Western". It's poking fun at the Westerns that romanticized allegedly good and pure settlers (colonizers) and to sympathoze with them. You weren't supposed to think of them as, in Wilder's terms, "morons".
Parent was just trying to call people morons. It's not a clever reference, I got it. But those people are, specifically, Muslims so put off by the genocide of Palestinians that they'd vote against the administration supporting that grmocide. I would say their political acumen is more developed than the genocidal sheepdogging that we see in this thread, people that can't even say the word genocide trying to imply they're the adults in the room. At least they can understand basic leverage and independent action.
But I was making note that the "morons" reference in Blazing Saddles is about settler-colonists whereas the people parent wanted to call morons are literally people that are reacting against settler colonists and their supporters. I think that is an oversight that can only be made through chauvinism, personally. The person wants to feel better than those moved by genocide, they want it to be as narrow as "those people are stupid". They can't contend with the content.
I don't know what you're referring to.
You sure they're feigning?
I'm not feigning. I don't know what point you were making. Perhaps you could expound using more descriptive terms?
It seems that you are currently so agitated that my honest statement of not knowing what you mean must actually be a sneaky bad faith strategem.
Feel free to rephrase and expound on what you said. I do not see how it applied to what we were talking about, and therefore don't see its meaning.
As I said, I recognize behaviors and clichés. And you have not yet contradicted a single prediction and have accidentally confirmed a few.
I have made no bad faith arguments nor presented any disinformation. Please do your best to not make things up and to address what I have actually said.
And, of course, you should be against genocide and act accordingly.
Please do your best to engage in good faith with what I have said.
This did not begin with you engaging in good faith with what I said, lol. As I said originally, I (clearly correctly) interpreted you as having a defensive posturing, not one showing any interest in understanding. It has only been downhill from there. At this point your comments are just word salad and attempts at quips and insults. You have no actual replies to what I say, so you are also inventing things and using terms that you don't understand incorrectly.
I invite you to show me some of this "rational person". I assume that such a person has no need for straw men and pretending to know words just because they sound like a good zinger. I assume that such a person can directly address what I say rather than being evasive.
Alas.
A dishonest misquote, aping of my language without any substance behind it. Absurd straw men. Not addressing a single thing that I said.
And all because I say you should be against genocide and should work against genociders, not support them. This truly broke something in you, didn't? It's a shame it has only led to doubling down and dishonest behavior.
Is this the "rational person" you referred to?
I will acknowledge this repeated bad faith behavior as an admission that you cannot respond any further in this particular comment chain. I'm sure you will respond with some more dishonest word salad and you are welcome to it.
I'm going to fail at completely or concisely summarize the plot of Blazing Saddles here.
In the movie, there is a deeply greedy railroad tycoon who wants to build a railroad through the desert. The best place to run the railroad through is already occupied by a town of white settlers called Rock Ridge. Meanwhile, a black worker on the railroad becomes both popular and uppity. The harebrained scheme to kill two birds with one stone: Appoint the black man sheriff of Rock Ridge. So the tycoon is relying on the townspeople to be useful idiots and lynch the black man, while simultaneously expecting the insult of a black sheriff to drive the town into chaos so he can break up the town and run his railroad.
There is a scene where the black man, in his capacity as sheriff, greets a little old woman saying "Mighty fine mornin, ain't it?" She responds "Up yours, N***er!" Upset at this, his friend (a former gunslinger turned drunkard, played by Gene Wilder) to try to cheer him up, saying "these are people of the land, the common clay of the new west." Gene Wilder ad libbed the line "you know, morons." which caused Cleavon Little (playing the black sheriff) to genuinely laugh, which made it into the final cut of the movie.
Shenanigans ensue during which a man named Mongo punches a horse to the ground, then Madeline Kahn happens, and it comes out that the tycoon (and the governor in the tycoon's pocket) is trying to hurt the town and the black sheriff is actually on their side, the townsfolk learn and grow as people and put aside their bigotry, in the words of the mayor "We're okay, with the ners and the cks, but we DON'T WANT THE IRISH. Ah, prairie shit. Everybody!" meanwhile the tycoon and his cronies are mainly driven by greed and unable/unwilling to grow, accept others or find equitable solutions, and are defeated/humiliated.
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So in this context, calling muslim Americans who would vote for the Republicans because the Democrats are in office while Israel is going full Nazi is calling them useful and disposable idiots. Which is exactly what they are. The Republicans actively want to kill muslims. Muslims are black people who aren't even Christians, the Republicans would exterminate muslims recreationally. They'll gladly take their votes though, anything for more power. Meanwhile the muslims be over here talking about "The Republicans hate women and jews, I hate women and jews; it's like they get me, you know?"
Yes I know the reference, parent is just calling them stupid really. Though I appreciate you taking the time to explain it and write it up! I wrote a comment to this effect but explaining what I am saying in regards to it here.
Good movie BTW, everyone should watch it, especially if you have ever seen a garbage chauvinist pop Western like anything with John Wayne in it.
Correct.
There's a movie I would suggest watching called In Harm's Way. Admittedly it's a WWII movie and not a Western, but it's...without wishing to spoil let's just say it's the most nuanced John Wayne film I'm aware of.
Thanks for the movie rec! I added it to my queue. There is a lot of overlap between WWII movies at the time and Westerns so if nothing else I will enjoy making comparisons. If you could sum up your takeaway in one sentiment, what would it be?
In Harm's Way: Not all war heroes deserve medals.
Thanks!