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this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
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Enough Musk Spam
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Friend ran afoul of the Tesla's Drive-By-Wire. She had her car on automatic drive and it was speeding towards the bumper of another vehicle. She slammed on the brakes, but because the system has to switch from automatic to manual, the brakes didn't engage for a critical second. So she ended up jamming her car into the rear end of the vehicle in front of her, and her system recorded the event as "human error", because she was at the wheel when the collision occurred.
Now she's out several grand in repairs that her insurance won't cover, because she failed to let Tesla's autodrive system take responsibility for the collusion by trying to prevent it.
Stories like this are what make me incredibly hesitant to buy a Tesla.
As someone who owns a Tesla, I can attest this isn't how the brakes work. We'd heard similar rumors to this effect and it was the first thing we tried on the test drive. The brakes are 100% functional 100% of the time, regardless of driving assist.
Even if "full self driving" (quotes intentional, that shit is not fully self driving) did cause an accident, the driver is perfectly capable of avoiding it by braking or taking over steering.
P.s. Fuck Elon Musk
Is that true for all Tesla models though? I was under the impression the newer models had blended braking, which would make this story somewhat plausible.
Blended braking is when it uses the brakes to supplement low regen when the pedal is released.
To the best of my knowledge, which includes a few minutes online trying to prove myself wrong, the brakes on all Tesla models are straight friction - no blending. Regenerative braking only happens when the accelerator is released. The friction brakes alone are sufficient to kick in ABS, so regen isn't needed to help stop the car.
After giving it some thought, I suspect the car wasn't stopping fast enough, so the driver took over and just didn't brake hard enough to prevent the accident (possibly because they were anticipating some amount of assist from regenerative braking). Underestimating how hard to brake is very common and is one of the primary reasons behind adding automatic braking systems.
As other commenters have said, this is just not how the system works. Something was misunderstood or some context was probably lost somewhere. I have driven a new-ish 2021 Model 3 as a daily, and there are basically 2 modes of auto driving. One is autopilot, which is very similar to adaptive cruise control with lane-keep assist in other cars. Then there's full self-driving, which is supposed to be you entering a destination and your car will take you there with minimal interference. You also need to pay out the wazoo for that FSD functionality. Tesla needs you to be vigilant in both cases, and you're responsible for a crash in both cases. Now onto the brakes, in either system, when you press the brakes, the car immediately applies brakes. On occasion, it's taken the automated driving system a second to shut off when I apply the brakes, but I have always felt the brakes immediately kick in. Teslas at the moment do not have brake-by-wire. They have throttle-by-wire (duh, EVs), and steer-by-wire on some of the more recent higher end models. All of them have a hydraulic braking system where your foot on the pedal is immediately converted to braking pressure. Your friend is mistaken, and the crash is their responsibility for not maintaining vigilance. Afaik, very few companies are at self-driving tier 3, which is where the company would be responsible for a crash. Tesla is not there yet.
I've got the dashcam footage and I know the driver. She can tell me when she hit the brakes, and she says she had the peddle as far down as it would go. The car didn't begin decelerating in the same way an analog breaking system would have. That cost her a critical second and resulted in her rear-ending the vehicle in front of her.
Then maybe the breaks were bad. Idk. But she had plenty of lead time (presumably thanks to the super-advanced cruise control or whatever you want to call it) at the beginning of the video. The vehicle simply didn't stop in time.
Your friend lied to you.
I hate Tesla as much as the next guy but this sounds very odd.
It's hard to believe that it's possible to sell a car in 2024 that doesn't apply the brakes when you press your foot on the brakes.
Because it's probably bullshit. Elon Musk is a colossal problem, so people feel justified in whatever lies come to mind.
The Cybertruck has steer by wire BUT NOT BRAKE BY WIRE. No other Tesla has any such system. The brakes in all Teslas are traditional.
The question of who pays when you have an accident with autopilot has basically been settled in court: the normal rules of fault apply. If autopilot is at fault, then you're at fault. If you're in control, and you're at fault, then you're at fault.
The idea that an insurance company says, "Oh, we won't cover it because you deactivated autopilot" is outright silly. Ignore the autopilot thing for a second. What happens when you rear-end someone? Your insurance covers it based on your coverage, and your premiums probably go up significantly.
The driver was supposed to be in control, of a vehicle with traditional brakes, and hit a car. If they have coverage, it should be handled just as if autopilot weren't involved at all unless they can prove that Tesla is at fault.
It does apply brakes. It just takes time for the system to shift over between modes. But when you're in the middle of a collision, even a moment of latency can be the difference between braking in time and impacting the vehicle ahead of you.
There is no mode switch for brakes. We’ve had ABS and emergency brake assist features in cars for decades. Having a computer actuate the brakes vs a person requires absolutely nothing to change or ‘switch’. Pressure is applied to the hydraulic system manually through the brake pedal or automatically through an electric pump. Both are always in the system at all times.
Some cars have the ability to pre-charge the brake booster to apply more braking force in the event it determines you’re performing a ‘panic stop’. This feature was developed because most people tend to not apply the brakes hard enough in these situations. That is almost certainly what happened here. Not the switch between driving modes.
Drive by wire for 4000 pound missiles should not be legal
Isn't the airbus a380 drive by wire? A 628,000 pound missile?
An A380 has triple redundant systems and a massive crew of people who frequently check all of its systems.
A plane doesn't have to deal with hitting other planes thanks to traffic collision avoidance systems and air traffic control, Airbus planes are built to a ridiculous degree of safety and redundancy, and commercial pilots are trained to a much, MUCH higher degree and standard than your average car driver. Fly-by-wire aircraft and drive-by-wire vehicles are not even remotely comparable given the surrounding factors a car has to deal with versus an aircraft. There is a reason there have been so few accidents involving Airbus aircraft despite being so heavily computerized, while Teslas regularly get into accidents.
"Traffic. Traffic."
I love all the different alerts form the various warning systems.
https://www.myinstants.com/en/search/?name=tcas
Yes. A missile whose pilot undergoes much more training than the typical car driver.
This comment demonstrates such an incredible level of ignorance of aviation safety culture, road vehicle regulations, and the decline of capitalism that was predicted down to a tee by some fucks that had to lock themselves in their room and think of it with no computers or internet 100 years ago, that all I can even say is:
Lmao
This had me confused for a second, as these are types of transmissions. Wouldn't 'A.I.to human' driving be a more accurate description?
Is this why their new robotaxis have no controls? Liability over safety?