635
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2024
635 points (96.1% liked)
politics
19050 readers
4368 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
A mathematically illiterate one.
See, we live under a system of First Past the Post, otherwise known as Plurality.
It's a system that forces a two party system. Not as a conscious choice, but as a consequence of the very system itself.
Here's the kicker. Plurality voting actively punishes you for supporting a third party.
If you siphon votes away from the lesser of two evils, the greater evil wins.
It's a pretty simple concept. And since we are just weeks away from the election, anyone who is actively pushing for third parties is automatically suspect.
Because the problems with Plurality are not some newly discovered quirk. They've been studied for centuries, but most extensively by Kenneth Arrow in the 70s.
What I'm saying is that most of the money given to support Third Parties, comes from people who are on the opposite side of the spectrum from those Third Parties.
Simply put, Trump and company throw money at the Greens and Socialists to siphon support away from the Dems, so that Trump and company can win with fewer votes.
So you, advocating for a third party, are mathematically indistinguishable from a Trump supporter.
Wow if third parties are so powerful then how come you’re not voting for one too?
It seems like a great way to force the major party of your choice to pay attention to your politics.
I'm not voting Third party because I'm not a Trump Supporter.
But you may be one. Mathematically speaking.
My vote isn’t going to be counted for trump, and is for a party in opposition to his program.
You have a funny way of figuring out if someone is a trump supporter. Is it perhaps based on the old “with us or against us” chestnut?
You should know before you keep pushing that line, I will not vote Harris. If there was no party for socialism and liberation, I’d vote a different third party. If there were no third parties, I’d write a candidate in.
If you want to pick up a Harris vote, look elsewhere.
But you're publicly advocating for others to drop their support of Harris in favor of a third party.
Which is mathematically identical to telling people to vote for Trump. So I name thee a Trump supporter, because that's the only person who benefits from your actions.
Where?
My top level reply is an attempt to get Green Party voters who are starting to not feel so good to switch over to psl.
Also it’s not mathematically identical because my third party vote isn’t counted for trump.
I’m kinda surprised you care. Your party has written us off, do you not agree with their decision?
Man. Its really sad seeing people out here pretending they've got a math degree. Out here saying shit like not 7 equals 6. Get the fuck out of here with that dumb shit. Being a part of the subset does not make you the whole fucking set. If a vote for PSL or Green or fucking whatever, means more left leaning politicians elected locally and nationally, then great. It absolutely does not support Trump. It supports making the DNC maybe fucking listen to the left for once. Stop fucking going further and further right into pushing back against immigration. Stop supporting committing literal genocide in the hopes israel takes over iran for its lithium deposits and the rest of the middle east for the oil. Instead y'all would rather shill for genocide & becoming more and more evil as long as the other party gets evil fastererer.
But since you love math so much: The Libertarian/Constitution party has 3x the vote of green/PSL. Green/PSL was 0.31% of the total vote last presidential election. Which was 0.1% of the total number of possible votes. Stop focusing on shaming the few who absolutely won't vote DNC but still likely will vote down ballot and instead maybe focus on making your party actually have policies people would give a shit about, or focus on the DNC doing something to actually energize voters outside of making sure Trump runs against them so they can point to big scary. Or like, literally anything that might help you. Shaming 3rd party voters is just going to lose you more elections. Like, holy fuck do y'all learning nothing from 2016? Y'all look at Michigan and freak out about green party, ignoring that even fucking the constitution party had more votes than the tiny gap. and the libertarian party had 3x the amount. Even if the DNC successfully made it illegal to vote 3rd party like they seem to want to, they would've lost Michigan in 2012. They know that too. They just want to scapegoat someone instead of themselves. Stop blaming people other than the DNC. They're the ones who actively fought as hard as they could against any progressive policies. Letting Clinton using the "victory fund" well before securing the nomination in order to campaign against Bernie. literally just shooting itself in the face. Not a surprise they lost while doing that.
Anyways, sorry, people being shills for stupid DNC talking points made to alienate leftists and lose more elections annoys the fuck out of me.
For some fucked up reason, this election is close enough to make every vote matter. So, yes, pulling support from Harris is mathematically indistinguishable from supporting Trump.
Also, I always look down on idiots who think they can accomplish anything by separating themselves from the system. No, we work to fix it from within, or we don't get to fix it at all.