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France's most powerful nuclear reactor connected to grid after 17-year build (www.lemonde.fr)

submitted 2 days ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

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Summary

France’s Flamanville 3 nuclear reactor, its most powerful at 1,600 MW, was connected to the grid on December 21 after 17 years of construction plagued by delays and budget overruns.

The European Pressurized Reactor (EPR), designed to boost nuclear energy post-Chernobyl, is 12 years behind schedule and cost €13.2 billion, quadruple initial estimates.

President Macron hailed the launch as a key step for low-carbon energy and energy security.

Nuclear power, which supplies 60% of France’s electricity, is central to Macron’s plan for a “nuclear renaissance.”

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[-] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 27 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

You realize nuclear power plants have steady maintenance and replacements occurring at all times, right? That a machine being used in nuclear power doesn't make it immune from breaking down? That many of the machines involved have spinning and moving parts working in a high heat environment, whereas PV systems are largely static?

Replacement in a nuclear plant is happening way, way more often than on PV panels, where commodity panels are rated to provide near full power for 25-35 years, and then still provide over 80% power while they very slowly drop off. Solar is the only power source that will continue providing power without constant maintenance.

If "lack of replacement" is your main criteria, you dun fucked up backing nuclear. Solar fits that bill way, way better.

[-] TheBlackLounge@lemm.ee -3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Of course a nuclear reactor needs maintenance and thus also produces infrastructure waste. A lot more than a solar cell. But it dwarfs when you divide by watt-hours. Solar cells produce dozens of times more waste per watt-hour, and stuff that's worse to handle too. Nuclear plants are mostly concrete and steel. Solar panels are glass and rare elements that we can't recycle properly yet.

Like, you didn't really think I was just comparing plants to cells did you? The point is, if the whole world goes solar, how many times over can we replace all of it?

[-] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago

Solar panels are glass and rare elements that we can't recycle properly yet.

NREL's Solar PV fact sheet on circularity says that conventional solar PV panels have recovery rates of 80-95% given existing recycling infrastructure.

We know how to recycle these things. The fact that we maybe don't do so in a widespread way is because it's still cheaper to throw shit in a landfill or incinerator.

[-] TheBlackLounge@lemm.ee 2 points 22 hours ago

95% doesn't mean you can turn 100 old panels into 95 new panels. The 5% is cobalt and stuff, that needs to be mined over and over. It's great that we have such rates but we're not really lacking in glass.

[-] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Nuclear plants are mostly concrete and steel.

???

You realize the above is true for basically any building, right? That that's a crazy metric to judge any maintenance effort by? Total weight of the building and then everything in it?

Do datacenters not have replaceable parts because they are mainly concrete and steel? Sure, they may have 10,000 servers that all need to be fixed and replaced constantly but since a datacenter is mostly concrete and steel, it doesn't matter because it's not much by total mass of the datacenter? Same goes for airports, factories, on and on.

I guess if you plonk thousands of maintenance heavy devices into a large enough building then weigh the whole structure, the percentage of the structure that has to be serviced goes down, making overall (by weight) maintenance go down. Airplanes need to be fixed? They weigh basically nothing compared to airports, so "tada!" no they dont!

Skipping over your bizarre metric, solar cell recycling is hitting 95%. That is again, something that isn't relevant with modern panels for 30-50+ years, as they will still be producing 70-80% of their rated power at that time. That's easily enough power to just leave them in use.

[-] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago

Lol and the commenter above you is forgetting about the aluminum of the PV module's frame, as well as stainless steel used for the racking. Those things are super easy to recycle.

[-] TheBlackLounge@lemm.ee -4 points 1 day ago

Ehh, concrete is very polluting, and nuclear plants need a lot of it. It's not gonna get recycled either. I thought this was obvious. Dunno how you thought that was a dunk.

But we can keep building them. It'll always be expensive, but we don't need much rare material.

I was hoping I'd see cobalt etc in your link, but still not then... For solar cells we need that 5% to be mined over and over. 50 years is nothing if you're talking about renewables. Might as well not care about sustainability at all if you're not talking another 5000 years.

[-] Enkrod@feddit.org 1 points 18 hours ago

Cobalt is more abundant in the earths crust than thorium or uranium by an order of magnitude.

[-] TheBlackLounge@lemm.ee 1 points 17 hours ago

And we need several orders of magnitude more of it per Wh. We'll run out of sand to make cement to build reactors before we run out of uranium.

this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2024

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