61
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2024
61 points (96.9% liked)
politics
19280 readers
1824 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
The Debt Limit is placed on the Treasury to allow them to pay for money already spent by the government. Essentially, it limits the amount of debt the Treasury can draw down on. Without it, the bills aren't paid.
The debt limit was an invention in WW2 to allow the executive branch to change spending priorities for the war without needing to push a new budget through Congress each time. The intent was to give the executive branch more flexibility, within limits, NOT to hold the entire government hostage.
The limit literally prevents US paying its debts, not enforce paying them.
Fact check : True
How does limiting the amount of debts the Treasury can accrue on money already earmarked for spending pay anyone's bills?
Imagine your spouse hands you a grocery list, you fill up your shopping cart, run it through the cash register, and get a total of $100.
Then you pull out your credit card, only to discover your spouse has also limited how much you can spend to $70.
How are you helped by this system?
The simplest answer is to say that the money is earmarked for spending, but not payment. Think that Congress spends the money and Treasury pays for it. Some bills are due and payable this year, a year from now, 5 years from now, etc. Plus, income, or taxes raised, are also veriable.
In any case, the debt limit has to be raised in January and Trump is none too happy about it.
Why even have a debt limit to begin with? It's a wholely artificial constraint?
You've earmarked $100 for spending, you don't need a send legislative gate on the Treasury to spend it.
That's a good question. I suppose it has something to do with Congress neededing to pass a budget for each spending bill.
The Debt Ceiling isn't a budget, its a cap on borrowing. The only thing it constrains is the Treasury's authority to issue new outstanding treasury notes.
That's what makes it such a mess. This isn't Congress retroactively saying "Yes, I told you to buy items 1 thru 10, but if you run out of money drop them in reverse order." They're just saying "Hey, if it's over $70, just don't buy anything after all."
There needs to be a budget passed by Congress to allocate money to be spent. It hasn't been done in some time as Congress can only agree on continuous resolutions. The majority of the budget can't be changed, things like interest on debt, mandatory programs, etc. That's why Musk's BS is simply that.
Next is allocation, or spending. Congress has a pool of money for a division of the government through the budget and now allocates for a particular program or need. It then allocated this money and Treasury is given the responsibility to pay for it. When revenues don't match expenditure we borrow money from ourselves to take care of the shortfall.
CRs simply adopt the budget of the prior Congress, adjusted by some inflation value designated in the CR. They are budgets in every way that matters.
The majority of Congress can't agree on changes, so they adopt the last consensus in order to continue the operations of the federal bureaucracy. The budget can be changed with a majority vote in two chambers. These chambers refuse to find a consensus on what those changes should be.
Congress has no limit on the amount of dollars it can spend, as the US Government originates its own currency. The only real limit on Congressional spending is the strength of the US dollar on the secondary exchange markets. And right now, the US Dollar is - if anything - too strong for its own good, encouraging an excess of cheap imports at the expense of domestic capital development.
We don't "borrow money from ourselves". We issue debt that pays an interest rate over time to investors and they lend back cash that they aren't using. This recirculates the existing stock of cash without inflating the general supply of notes in circulation.
The Debt Ceiling limits how much new debt we can issue, which means driving down the interest rates on existing treasury notes and allowing existing cash stockpiles to languish.
If you knew all that, why would you question the need for a budget. Feel like I'm spinning wheels.
The Budget is the CR. I'm not questioning the need for it. I'm questioning the arbitrary limit on the payment scheme for money you've already allocated as needing to be spent.
A continuous resolution is for the budget, not the debt limit.
Its a holdover from when the executive branch made the budgets so that congress still had some control. Long ago congress took back doing the budget with the congressional budget office and the debt limit makes no sense now as congress votes on the budget and then later votes on allowing bills they authorized to be paid with debt because they did not raise taxes to cover budget costs.