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this post was submitted on 09 Jan 2025
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This doesn't expose anything new. We've known this for decades. If they have a problem with this sort of behavior. They need to not do business with brutal, oppressive systems and government like China. But of course it won't stop them in the long run. Like it never stopped western nations from trying to benefit from the exploitation either.
the whole world depends on doing business with china
And? Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe no one should be dependent on one country like that. Especially authoritarian ones.
of course, but its easier said than done
True. But if something is worth doing it shouldn't matter if it's hard. We should still try.
You say that as if Western nations aren't themselves brutal, oppressive and exploitative.
This does not describe what I've done.
It sure as hell looks like that’s what you did.
To you. Maybe re-read what I've written.
Okay.
Still looks like "What about the Western nations? No one is completely blameless." To me.
That would only make sense if I had introduced the concept of Western nations. OP did that, not me.
Maybe re-read not just what I wrote, but the whole thread.
Okay, I've re-read the thread.
It still looks like you're both engaging in whataboutism to me. You still haven't explained how this is not implying that no one is completely blameless, making the argument invalid.
shrug
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reason ?
It's not on me to show that what I've said is not something you think it is, it's on you to show that what I've said is something you think it is.
You're denying you're engaging in whataboutism, so yes it is on you. You have made a claim now.
It's you who made the claim that I am engaging in "whataboutism". It's on you to show that what you've said is true.
I already did. More than once. And then you made the claim that you were not. So the burden of proof is now on you. It's not my fault if you made a claim you can't back up.
Incidentally, you haven't even bothered explaining what you did mean if you weren't engaging in whataboutism and I think we both know why.
I don't believe you have. Could you quote the text where you demonstrate that I'm engaging in "whataboutism"?
I meant what I wrote. If you're confused about the meaning of anything I've written, feel free to ask me to clarify, I'm happy to explain.
I think you're not engaging in this discussion in good faith.
That's not an explanation. So all I can assume is that you were engaging in whataboutism. I asked you what you were doing if it wasn't whataboutism multiple times and you refuse to say. I have no other option than to assume I'm correct and you are refusing to admit it.
I believe the general order of events is for you to insult me now.
Indeed. I'm not sure why you expected an explanation.
That's not rational.
Without an alternate explanation to the one I came up with, it's absolutely rational to continue with my explanation.
If you wish to offer an alternate one for me to consider, feel free. You won't because you were, in fact, engaging in whataboutism. And now you're being ridiculous about it.
That's only because you're putting words in my mouth. That was literally the point. We've just outsourced the brutally. And just because the West used brutality and slavery does not justify China doing it now.
Either way I'm going to get it from both sides. Tankies screaming about China criticism. Capitalist upset about criticizing the west.
Precisely because the west used brutality and slavery and essentially tried to colonize/puppet the entire world is PRECISELY why nobody should give a shit what the west says. How many democratic nations have you couped for you resource exploitation, how many millions have died under so called "American led world peace" just this century alone? You don't need to be a tankie to criticise the west wholesale slaughtering and justifying continuous wars in the middle east, and south America. Just need be a human with a functional brain and empathy
So to clarify your position, you also advocate for countries not doing business with the West
Where the west behaves similarly, absolutely. It would be hypocritical not to.
You've misunderstood.
I'm saying Western nations use brutality now.
Don't put me in a box.
There are more countries than "the US". Not everyone has fucked up work laws, especially in Europe.
I haven't said those words.
Yeah you said "west is fucked up when working" when in reality it is "the US"
Could you pleaae share some recent examples of similar western behavior like this?
So was I. And I didn't. Simply mentioned the hypocrisy of both groups. Again, you're making assumptions.
You said:
"They need to not do business with brutal, oppressive systems and government like China."
Here you're stating that China is a brutal, oppresive system and government. Saying that "they" (Western nations) need to not do business with "brutal, oppressive systems" implies that the Western nations are not themselves brutal and oppressive.
You also said
"Like it never stopped western nations from trying to benefit from the exploitation either."
and used the word "stopped" which is past tense, meaning that Western nations' benefitting from exploitation of their population is something which happened in the past and is not something which is still happening now.
You also said
"just because the West used brutality and slavery does not justify China doing it now."
and used the word "used" which is past tense and even said "China doing it now", clearly contrasting a (supposedly) past behaviour of the West with a current behaviour of China.
No idea why you're getting downvoted until I saw it was lemmy.world This place time and again proves to be where all the western Reddit refugees with all the stupidity but none of the nuance old Reddit had.