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fixed cyberghost's "meme"
(thelemmy.club)
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this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2023
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I'm guessing you're an anarchist, which I appreciate and so I totally understand why you may not like these instances, but do you ever feel like some of the people criticizing Lemmygrad and Hexbear are Right-wingers themselves?
I fully support Leftist critiques but some of these claims are kind of wild. Someone claiming hexbear is racist? How would it be racist, from a Leftist perspective? It just seems to me like Right-wingers are attacking them with these ridiculous claims to get them to be defederated or at least to get people to stay away and not understand the humor. If someone critiqued them for defending the State when communism should include the dissolution of the State apparatus, the recuperation of initially revolutionary movements by global capitalism, etc. then I'd appreciate the Leftist critiques but it doesn't seem to me to be the case. And it doesn't seem to me like there is any monolithic position at hexbear either. I actually was further pleasantly surprised to see they had an anarchism community and also a Christianity community at hexbear, it doesn't feel to me like they have a hard Stalinist party-line and don't accept differences among the Left.
I do get the feeling they don't like Right-wingers though.
I'm just gonna talk about your first paragraph. No they are not right wingers lmao. I fucking hate that you can't be centrist or democratic socialist without some asshole (not you, you're just asking) saying you're a right winger.
I believe the west has better equality, stability, quality of life, rights, morals, so and and so forth.
And I think we need to greatly expand our social programs.
However if I defend the west then suddenly I'm a right winger? Fuck off with that classification shit. I just don't subscribe to Russia and China somehow being better then the US or the west in any sort of way.
This is why these social movements never get any movement in the US. They're too busy self hating and worshipping facists in the East.
What you are describing is called "campism" in socialist communities which aren't run by edgy teenagers and trolls.
Thanks for your response and I appreciate the thought you put into it. I agree we need to greatly and desperately expand social programs. I also don't think Russia or China are perfect, much less socialist, but I wouldn't say the West—including the US—is categorically and unquestionably better in every sort of way. That being said, the Left does need to be broader in the West and everywhere else, which is why I think I'd rather hold solidarity with Leftists in these instances who I may not fully agree with rather than attacking them alongside Right-wingers and fascists.
And, sorry, but, no offense, a centrist is a Right-winger to me and it proves my point.
My point is I'm only a right winger in a small niche bubble which is completely not the reality of things.
To most of the world I'm a lefty and to actual right wingers they would probably call me a communist (and sure incorrectly but not my point).
Right winger means maga idiot to most of the ppl in the US not democrat who wants to greatly expand our social programs and nets.
Fair enough. I do think there is a popular misunderstanding among the general public about political theory as well as political labels so maybe you shouldn't take that as justification for anything, but I can admit there is gatekeeping and puritanism that happens among the Left in terms of letting people into particular parties/collectives but also in terms of labels in general.
In my opinion, the baseline is that any actual Leftist wants the abolition of Capitalism. If you don't support the abolition of private property as capital, then you are not a Leftist.
Centrists and Democratic Socialists have not been great examples of Leftists to me so I assume anyone who unironically identifies as such is more aligned with the center-Right (i.e., supports the existence of Capitalism but with reforms).
Hexbear unironically defends Russia, which is an extremely racist and homophobic place. Likewise, China is also an extremely racist place, which is increasingly opposed to LGBT advocacy as "western degeneracy." And of course, they fall over themselves to defend tyranny, as long as it pays lip service to socialist ideals, while denigrating social democrats as insincere "shit libs." Then they post their little arms crossed emoji thinking they've made some point.
By and large these people are children who legitimately have an extremely narrow view of the world they seek to critique. They see Lenin write that "imperialism is something everyone other than Russia does" and that's about as far as they look into the underlying philosophy of imperialism.
Well, I'm not going to comment on Russia's imperialism being supported on Hexbear because I haven't quite seen that as much as I've seen critique of Ukraine's issue with Nazism and the West's hypocritical denialism about that even existing as an issue in Ukraine—when during Euromaidan it was acknowledged. I don't support Putin or the invasion, because while there are Nazis in Ukraine who should be dealt with the same could be said about Russia or the US itself, but I also don't think the US is being smart by arming fascist Right-wingers. The US has done this before and it never works out well.
I don't quite see the racism argument though. Hexbear is racist because some people support Russia? I mean, yeah, Russia can definitely be racist and maybe some people at Hexbear probably support Russia in an uncritical way. But lacking any racist memes or racist discussions happening, of which I've seen none, I don't think that equates to the users or the instance being racist. The US and Europe are extremely racist societies, I would argue way more racist than Russia, but I don't see people arguing that instances with liberals who support the US are racist instances and should be defederated.
It seems like you just kinda agree with hexbear.
Agree with Hexbear about what, exactly?
I feel like this is such a reddit moment ascribing one, monolithic point of view to a mass of people. Am I Leftist? Yes. If that means I agree with Hexbear, then, yeah, I totally do. But I don't necessarily think I agree wholesale with an instance, not that there is a position that is universal there anyway—other than being a Leftist.
Hexbear is leftist in the way that coontown was right-wing. They're pro-Russia and for the invasion of Ukraine, something that most people on the rational left disagree with.
I'm fine with lumping the members of that domain together because they choose to flock together.
I don't fully understand the analogy because I've never heard of that other place before, for which I am thankful because something tells me it's best not to know it.
It's a (now removed afik) racist subreddit for exactly what you would assume. I make the connection in that it's only right wing insofar as you would assume racism = right wing. The point being that Hexbear is only leftist insofar as you would assume communist ideology is inherently radically leftwing (regardless of its potentially authoritarian implementation). Hexbear is extreme and should not necessarily be lumped into the grand ideology of rational leftists.
(This is my dumbshit opinion)
Oh, no, most of the critique, especially of lemmygrad, is from a right wing stance (right wing from an anarchist prospective). There are are plenty of good conversations to be had about the role of activism and the state in achieving liberation. But the standard critique is a knee jerk reaction.
I blocked those two hexbear comnunities because they are the most likely to insert hexbear's wild and unpleasant meme culture into my timeline. They aren't terribly interested in any discussion that doesn't start and end with their viewpoint, cause its meme culture.
I have an 60% confidence I will get sea-lioned for this comment. Also a 20% chance I will get pig poop balls, although highlighting it may increase those odds
edit: after 5 hours I did not get sea-lioned. I admit I was overly critical in that estimate.
Yeah, I'm seeing it's more Right-wingers than anarchist comrades so I do get skeptical.
But I understand about the meme culture. It can be heavy-handed but I actually like it. I think it's funny and it is a nice break from just liberal or apolitical meme humor. I've seen some good discussions there though but honestly not too many anarchist discussions, although I get the feeling it wouldn't be totally rejected. I wish there was more solidarity and love between us.
Thanks for the response!
Yeah, I subscribe to and participate in soma hexbear communities. I don't throw it all out. And of course, the majority of critique of liberation will come from the right wing. There are some anarchist comnunities on lemmy, I hope to see you there some time!
That's good to hear, too! I came to Lemmy, besides reddit's issue with third-party apps, because I wanted to be around other Leftists. I don't care too much about the specifics of everyone's politics, just want to have a good time.
I definitely lurk (and have probably commented) on some anarchist communities too! Do you have any you recommend? There are so many communities, I'm still getting around to subscribing to them. And I have a backup account on your instance too. Haha
Went and fished out the link for you, this is to give a second notif so I don't secretly edit It in: !anarchism@slrpnk.net
Oh, thank you! I just joined that too. I checked the other recommended communities there and was already a member of those but happy to join this one that I missed.
welcome! I look forward to learning and sharing in solidarity with you!
The slrpnk community is quite good, lots of resources and good exchange of ideas.
Vhat is it that you feel unappealing about lemmygrad that does not agree with my opinions??
Edit: Sorry bots work on a half-day timeline.
Nothing, I have no strong opinion of lemmygrad.