It's not a troll. I genuinely don't care what other people eat. I'm going to talk about it, and I want a place to talk about it.

The study you link to, is comically, linking all of the metabolic syndromes to the consumption of meat.

Let's consider diabetes, type 2 diabetes is defined as the inability for the body to regulate blood glucose. Blood glucose is introduced from the consumption of sugar, or carbohydrates, or fructose.

A type 2 diabetic can bring their blood sugar down, just by not eating glucose, or sugar, or fructose, or carbohydrates.

Fat, and protein, which is what most animal food is, does not introduce glucose into the blood.

You figured me out. Only a spiteful person would downvote the last 20 posts somebody made on social media because they want to eat a different diet.

You'll eventually run into vitamin deficiencies if you don't eat anything else.

What is deficient?

Everything is in a context, I'm just going to discuss one in your first link (which isn't research, just a blog) - Scurvy. The intuit eating their traditional diet did not get scurvy, famously... funnily enough - meat has vitamin C in it (among other things) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22063662/

Oh, I now realize the first site also lists Vitamin A as a carnivore deficiency, but also says Liver is the best source of Vitamin A..... That is .... some gymnastics there. Let me say, you can't eat healthily by just eating muscle. You have to eat the whole animal - tip to tail. Liver too! Liver is the best thing you ever eat. The fat is necessary, the organs are necessary. That is why ground meat is probably the best food you can get at a grocery store (just behind liver)

The second paper - Food questionnaire applied to a high carbohydrate population (healthy user bias/observational study)

Third paper - They even use 'MAY' in the title, which also means MAY NOT.

The fourth - is a article by a lay person.

This is the poor quality science issue I was referring to in the previous post.

If your going to have a blanket statement like this isn't sustainable - you have to address real counter examples - the intuit lived without plants, and without cancer on a all carnivore diet.

It still remains that meat is linked to heart disease and cancer.

As far as I'm aware the studies that have shown this link are observational (i.e. the literature will say "linked", "associated", "correlated"), with significant healthy user bias. None of the papers have compared ketogenic omnivore, vs pure carnivore, vs pure vegan (not keto). But if your aware of a paper that has a stronger link, I'd love to read it - I genuinely mean that, I'll read every word of it!

I fully admit a standard american diet (SAD) - is a recipe for cancer, and heart disease! Any diet that moves away from it is a improvement! So if the studies linking to heart issues in the context of insulin resistance really apply to a insulin sensitive carnivore diet?

Allow me to flip the coin as a illustration - We know high sugar intake, and high carbohydrate intake are incredibly linked with insulin resistance - which is the driver for diabetes, cardio vascular issues. Using the same logic you have used, I could say (since all sugar/carbs comes from plants), with full accuracy and confidence, 'it still remains that plants are linked to heart disease and cancer'. Clearly this is absurd and reductive way to discuss things.

Here is a bonus fun read on the issues with observational data and cherry picking: https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/full-article/meat-and-cancer

 And even if you were convinced that meat is necessary anyway, how is a full meat diet better than a mixed diet?

If we agree that animal based foods are bioavailable and biocomplete, then a mixed diet would be for variety, or food availability. Can a insulin sensitive omnivore diet do as well as carnivore, probably. The markers I care about are all cause mortality, inflammation, gut health, and most importantly ease of compliance.

If someone has a chronic gut issue, like Chron's or IBS... then carnivore is nearly a requirement to a decent quality of life. Most of carnivore food is fully digested before it gets to the intestines, which is why its such a boon for people with gut issues.

meat production will never be ethical, nor sustainable.

I respect your conclusions, and I thank you for sharing them with me.

If you're eating meat today, you're supporting today's meat industry.

Yes, with great enthusiasm, hence my creating this community. Though I do purchase my meat directly from a sustainable farm.

Probably not that many, honestly. It's niche. Even the intuit today have moved to a mostly western diet, with its incumbent issues.

Right now the most mainstream use case for carnivore is as a elimination tool - people having some gut or inflammation issue go strict pure carnivore for 6 weeks or so, then introduce different foods back into their diet - very slowly - until the issue happens again.

Like, vegans already have their own issues in getting the right nutrients, and I’d think that carnivores would have a harder time. Scurvy?

In your own example, the Intuit did not suffer from scurvy. Also, meat has vitamin C in it, yes really, yes I know some places list it as 0... it's assumed 0, but when measured, its there.

Think of it this way, if there is something necessary for animals to have, and you eat the animal that has it... you probably get it to... at least the essential forms of it. This assumes your eating the entire animal, tip to tail, meat, fat, organs... especially liver! This is why ground /minced meat is so great, especially if you can get a mix with organ meat in it... all in one, one stop shopping.

Thanks for asking the questions! I appreciate your willingness to have a discussion!

The purpose of this community is not to change anybodies minds, or campaign, I'm happy people have chosen other diets - and I'm really glad those other paths are working for people!

What evidence do you have that it’s healthy?

The most concise resource I can point you to is : https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/skeptical-doctors They do a excellent, job and cite sources!

Carnivore is a subset of a low carb / ketogenic diet.

If you want to join me in discussing the literature: https://hackertalks.com/post/5678163 https://hackertalks.com/post/5678151 https://hackertalks.com/post/5592913 https://hackertalks.com/post/5596592 (This one requires a few more hoops and is a study about exogenous ketones, but still relevant when making diet choices)

Insulin resistance is the de facto marker of modern health issues; Carnivore by virtue of not spiking insulin, is a insulin sensitive diet, and avoids the metabolic syndrome family of problems (high blood pressure, cardio vascular disease, fatty liver disease, diabetes etc, etc)

Everything I’ve seen points to meat being linked to things like heart disease and cancer.

Heart disease is inextricably linked to metabolic syndrome, and insulin resistance; There are also findings suggestive of cancer linked to metabolic syndrome as well (see above). Carnivore, as a strict ketogenic subset, avoids metabolic syndrome entirely by maintaining insulin sensitivity.

how do you rationalize choosing a diet that maximizes animal suffering

If you choose a non-animal food diet for philosophical reasons, I applaud you, I can't fault you, and I wish you the best success.

Personally, I have a long journey to fix metabolic issues, and the bioavailability of animal based nutrition is significantly higher https://hackertalks.com/post/5606539 and is part of my recovery plan. Getting proper vitamins and minerals is hard on any diet! Depending where you draw the line, this can be achieved with dairy, eggs, and fish as well.

how do you rationalize choosing a diet that maximizes ... environmental harm?

I agree modern farming techniques need to be changed for both sustainability and humanitarian reasons. I've discussed the improvement of modern industrial food production before: https://hackertalks.com/post/5620914/6043326 but it boils down to

• Regenerative farming is a must
• No grain for ruminant animals, use the 15% of the earths surface that is only suitable for range land to feed the ruminants.
• Animals living natural lifestyles and diets are the healthiest, and the best for the food supply
• Removing needless medication and hormones from animal production is a must.

That would be a good outcome! some people, however, live to downvote things they don't like - over and over, every day! Oh well, thats life in the fediverse.

I'm actually subbed to multiple vegan/veggie communities - and I only upvote there. I'm mindful it's a safe space for vegans to discuss amongst themselves and I'm thankful I can read and participate.

These figures should be inflation adjusted

Also why no big Mac?

2014 $5.39 inflation adjusted to 2024 $7.18

Before it would show you a red removed comment, but the comment was still there, I assume that was an admin view.

I found it very helpful

Indeed - Carnivores are clearly a underserved minority in the fediverse. That is why I decided to make the community, a safe space for brisket!

Yeah, I'm subscribed. I like the summaries! It's a good idea.

I'm not sure if its possible, but can you torture your model to try to generate a one sentence summary as well, kinda like - make a factual headline for this article that is short and succinct!

https://www.economist.com/rss - They do enjoy their paywalls, might need to link to one of the ladders as well, like archive.is

Every source has a bias, sometimes what is NOT reported is a stronger signal then what is reported.

I pull news from multiple biased sources and stitch together my own view.

The Economist (USA), BBC (UK), Reuters(UK), Al Jazerra (QAT) , CGTN (china), CNA (SGP) - Gives quite the picture of events, from multiple perspectives!

Remember the Left-Right spectrum is only a very shallow view of the world, its multidimensional politics out there with many different incentives!