[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago

No, it's the conclusion of the paper cited in your source. The supposed proCoV2 is 3 base pairs away from Wuhan-1, and is 1100 base pairs away from other human-infecting SARS strains.

Basically there was another similar virus that had the same spike proteins - if you remember the photos, the virus is a spiked ball, the antibodies bond to the spikes. It was a precursor to the Wuhan strain, so basically the fact that there were antibodies in Italy before the Wuhan outbreak just means that similar shit was going around the world before, but not the same shit.

https://par.nsf.gov/servlets/purl/10287595

Because proCoV2 is three bases different from the Wuhan-1 genome, we estimate that the divergence of the earliest variants of proCoV2 occurred 5.8–8.1 weeks earlier, based on the range of estimated mutation rates of coronavirus genomes (see Materials and Methods). This timeline puts the presence of proCoV2 in late October 2019, which is consistent with the report of a fragment of spike protein identical to Wuhan-1 in early December in Italy, among other evidence (Giovanetti et al. 2020; Li, Wang, et al. 2020; van Dorp et al. 2020; Amendola et al. 2021). The sequenced segment of the spike protein is short (409 bases). It does not span positions in which 49 major early variants were observed, which means that the Italian spike protein fragment can only confirm the existence of proCoV2 before the first coronavirus detection in China.

I haven't said anything about labs. Nobody treats the lab theory as a "proven fact". But it is a proven fact that the specific strain that got dubbed COVID-19 first appeared in the general vicinity of Wuhan.

[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 day ago

The first confirmed cases were in Wuhan, and right now, the state of science is that started either in Wuhan or near Wuhan. It's complicated science because where antibodies were found is still just one datapoint, a precursor can have the same molecular structure on the virus surface, so similar or exactly the same antibodies. Meaning since the discussed proCoV2 was only three base pairs away, it could be producing the same antibodies, be widespread, infect, even kill people, yet not be COVID-19.

The problem that the Chinese political system doesn't promote open academic discussion - that the virus is political - doesn't help either.

[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago

More like that random guy you grab for a required additional signature on a lease as a witness or something.

[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Same source says that it definitely came to Europe from China though, a few paragraphs lower:

These findings do not at all suggest that the virus originated in Italy, but they endorse the idea that the virus was likely spreading in China before the first known cases and that could have been circulated by travelers given direct the connections between China and European and US countries, particularly the Northern West and East Italian regions, which are among the most industrialized and connected areas of Italy. Evidence used to support this hypothesis comes from a comparative genomic analysis of more than 175,000 genomes, which delineated 22 distinct SARS-CoV-2 haplogroups with a broad geographic distribution within China, pointing towards an early emergence and widespread cryptic circulation of the virus well before its isolation in January 2020 [25]. Recently, Kumar et al. reconstructed the mutational history of SARS-CoV-2 using a so called ‘mutation order approach’ (MOA) [26]. From their analysis of more than 174,000 genomes, major mutational fingerprints revealed that it is useful to identify and track the spatiotemporal evolution of novel coronavirus. The progenitor genome identified differed from that of the first coronaviruses sampled in China by three variants, implying that none of the earliest patients represents the index case or gave rise to all human infections. However, multiple coronavirus infections in China, the USA and Europe harbored the progenitor genetic fingerprint in January 2020 and later, suggesting that the progenitor was spreading worldwide months before.

A recently published letter by Petti et al. summarizes existing evidence that corroborates the infectious disease epidemiology principle of pathogen circulation prior to the recognized outbreak [27]. The eventuality of an early SARS-CoV-2 circulation already relatively sustained in Europe and America is not so astonishing, as SARS-CoV-2 is mainly a respiratory pathogen. Therefore, a novel unknown respiratory virus responsible for severe pneumonia like SARS-CoV-2 could circulate undetected for months or years, be responsible for many deaths, and even become a pandemic, before peculiar characteristics of the disease are noticed that allow for its identification.

Looks as if the original virus that definitely came from China caused less severe symptoms and was not detected, but still caused infections thus antibody findings.

Did China do transparent peer-reviewed research into this?

[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 day ago

He said it was feminist propaganda because the two main characters didn’t need men and the story didn’t end with a marriage

Just like Alice in Wonderland in 1951, but I suppose the 50s were woke too.

[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 16 points 1 day ago

Well, some people in Lebanon disagree

[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 13 points 1 day ago

The US kinda proved its laws aren't worth the paper they're printed on. It's like "but Putin isn't allowed to run for President again".

[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 8 points 1 day ago

Can you put a source to that?

[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Only if it is also a crime in the extraditing state and if that state has no reason to believe that the punishment would be cruel and unusual.

And if there is an extradition agreement still in effect.

So practically no they can't. They can still be punished by the potentially extraditing country though.

[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 16 points 1 day ago

I love how Vance is now VVP.

[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 15 points 1 day ago

The point is to ban everything and lose track so that when they don't like you, they can always find something you did that was banned.

[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 day ago

I think there is a huge difference between Musk expressing and pushing an opinion and Twitter doing the same.

Musk should be free to be an idiot, Twitter less so.

53
submitted 3 months ago by HK65@sopuli.xyz to c/world@lemmy.world

I mean, he's not wrong, but apparently saying the quiet part out loud became a faux pas in Hungary recently.

It's not as pithy as Orbán's "Rosatom will buy it for me" about RTL Hungary though.

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HK65

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