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submitted 1 year ago by alcasa@lemmy.sdf.org to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

Not on a theoretical level, but how would you practically have to pay costs, access specialist doctors?

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[-] alcasa@lemmy.sdf.org 30 points 1 year ago

I'll start with the German system. Here you are either automatically insured in one of the public insurances (there are many), which marginally differ in their cost (think single digit euro differences) and have to cover basically the same procedures. If one reaches a certain income level, being privately insured is possible.

If you are publicly insured, you wont see most costs, as these are directly handled between your insurer and the doctor/hospital. For some medications and procedures there are co-pays that are flat fees (5 Eur for Medications, ...).

Access to specialists mostly need a referral from your family doctor.

In private insurance, often you yourself will be billed and you will need to hand this to your insurance company.

The good side is that in most common situations I have never needed to worry about cost in public insurance, wait times for referrals can be very long and understanding what you need to get certain care can be very difficult. Private insurance often has better payment schemes for providers and less artificial limits on number of patients or which doctor is able to provide services, so access to most care is faster and more widely available.

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[-] Storspoven@feddit.nu 21 points 1 year ago

Sweden: Healthcare is mostly tax-funded. There is a small fee (for adults between 20-85 ) for each appointment. This fee lies between 150-330 SEK (~15-33 €), depending on which region you're in. Emergency care is usually about 10 € more (40€), and an ambulance trip double (so ~60€). If you're admitted to a hospital the fee is 120 SEK/day (in my region). Total fees paid for appointments during a year is capped at 1300 SEK (130 €), after that they're cost-free.

The above is regarding "necessary" care, so things like cosmetic surgery, vasectomies, etc. you'll have to pay more.

Access to specialist doctors varies, some you can contact directly (usually private practice), and others you'll have to first make an appointment with a general practitioner at a health center, then get a referall if they deem it necessary. In my region there's quite a long wait time for many specialists (I had to wait 6 months for a head MRI), and sometimes you'll have to travel quite far because the care is only offered in one hospital in the region (My wife had to drive 200 km for a surgery).

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[-] Lmaydev@programming.dev 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

UK here. Everything is free at point of use (paid via taxes) except prescriptions. It's around £10 per item. But they are free if you have certain long term health conditions, are pregnant etc.

To see a specialist your doctor writes a letter and they contact you.

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[-] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 1 year ago

Australia here.

For most medical services, the govt will reimburse you a set rate. The GP or specialist can charge you whatever, sometimes the same as the govt reimbursement, sometimes quite a lot extra. You don't pay anything at public hospitals (which are nice).

I recently had some great problems, I stayed overnight in hospital twice, for a total of 3 nights in private rooms, had an internal scaffold inserted in my artery. i also had numerous consults with specialists and drs.

The whole thing cost me about $500, a few days work on average wage.

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[-] S_204@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Canada. It's free, but slow.

They'll keep you alive, but it's up to you to stay healthy. Little prevention support around here.

[-] Hangglide@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Define slow. I have to wait months or more for an appointment in the US. Is it that slow? Emergency visits take hours, sometimes charging people who wait but don't get service. Is it that slow?

[-] TiresomeOuting@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago

Not the other poster but a Canadian too. It varies. To see my GP I can get an appointment within the week, usually same day, though most people here need to wait a couple weeks. Then there GP refers me to specialists, that's usually between 1-6 months wait.

Emergency yeah you are usually looking at 4 hours wait absolute minimum. Though you don't get charged for it at least. Though I guess it depends on severity, they will prioritize by how serious it is not by first arrival.

The other thing the other poster didn't mention is that medication is not covered so you have to pay full for that unless you have insurance. Also for some reason dental isn't covered at all without insurance (or I think recently for low income families but I'm not 100% sure if that's implemented yet or not)

[-] Hangglide@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

So, plus or minus a little, it is similar to the US, but free.

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[-] RBWells@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

U.S.A., I have a "high deductible PPO" plan, more or less what my parents would have called "Major Medical".

It covers only some preventative care, for $0 out of pocket, whatever is mandated by the government basically so annual wellness, annual woman-care, birth control, one dermatologist visit.

Then nothing, until we spend some ridiculous amount in one year, I think it's $7,000? At which point it starts paying 80% until we have paid an even bigger $, then it pays 100%.

So we don't have healthcare, exactly, we have limited liability for healthcare cost.

Specialist I can just schedule, do not need to be referred by GP. Prescriptions are subject to that same high deductible.

This plan costs, out of my paycheck, kind of a lot for family coverage, and employer puts back some of it onto a "health savings account" that can be used to pay towards the cost. Not anywhere near that $7k but some, and what is not used stays in there. I also put money in that account out of my paycheck to build it up so that when we do eventually have a bad year again, the money will hopefully be there to use.

Yes it's complicated.

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[-] Lobo6780@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In Poland, it doesn't. They just steal our money without anything in return you have to wait for years to get into surgery what you pay taxes for.

[-] Jajcus@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

That is not true. Not fully true, and the true part is blown out of proportion by various populists (especially right-wing, who would like to replace what we have with USA model or worse).

Most basic health care is organized by the government and paid through taxes and social insurance (which is obligatory). Unfortunately it is not financed enough and it shows, more in some areas and less in others. GP access is quite good, especially in larger cities, unless someone didn't care to choose his 'first contact clinic' right. Those clinics are mostly private, but working on government contract. One can usually get a GP appointment within a week, often same day. Urgent GP appointments are available 24/7 through special 'holiday and night health care points'.

Things became worse when popular specialist help is needed. One needs a referral from his GP and may need to wait months for appointment. There is the point were people who can afford that, would often go private. That and dentists / orthodontist.

Big problems are in children psychiatry, mostly due to lack of funding.

Medicines are much cheaper that in USA. When prescribed by a doctor they are usually partially or even, in some specific cases, fully paid by government. That is not make it affordable for everyone that needs it, but it is not very bad.

When something very bad happens – serious accident, cancer, etc. then the public health care gives the most. Public hospitals will do what they can (with limited funding and overworked personnel) for free. People are not sent away because they are poor and won't have huge debt to pay just because they got sick.

There are private insurances, or rather subscriptions services. They used to give better access to basic health care that the public services, but recently they don't offer much more. And you must pay for the public service anyway. They usually totally fail in more serious case (chronic illness, cancer, serious accident) – one would get to and be treated by a public hospital too.

In short:

Pros:

  • health care is basically free for everybody by principle
  • GP access is good, and serious cases are handled quite well
  • medicines are available and prices are not horrendous

Cons:

  • not all the free health care is practically available, sometimes available appointments are months or years in the future
  • dentists, orthodontists – not really available via public health care and private options are expensive
  • doctors, nurses are other personnel are underpaid and overworked
  • there is a lot of bad PR around health car here – this doesn't help improving things
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[-] GregoryTheGreat@programming.dev 14 points 1 year ago

USA. Others have covered cost but I’d like to add how long it takes to see a doctor.

I have an established primary care physician that I’ve seen for years. Now though if I want an appointment I have to wait at least two months. So I have a membership with an urgent care near me that puts a $180 cap on visits to their chain of urgent cares. There is obviously no on going care with them but most of the time that’s okay.

A friend of mine doesn’t have an established PCP and to get one he must wait at least a calendar year….

[-] rgb3x3@beehaw.org 15 points 1 year ago

So many people in the US complain that if we had a single-payer system, that wait times would be horrendous.

Well, here we are with the worst system in the world and still horrendous wait times.

[-] nguarracino@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I had an appointment for my annual physical in June that I had to reschedule. I called a couple of days beforehand, and the first time they could see me was in November.

We really are lucky as Americans not to have the crazy long wait times that other countries do, right?

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[-] DLSantini@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago

I open Google, search "am I gonna die", and if it says probably not, then I ignore whatever it is and hope it goes away. And if it says I am, then I wait for the end to come.

[-] HugeCounterargument@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

USA USA USA

[-] Assian_Candor@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Here in the US, if you have health insurance, any time you go to the doctor it’s $200. That’s if you have a doctor to go to. So we mostly don’t go, until it’s really bad, then maybe you have to go to the hospital, which may be a few thousand bucks on the low end and bankruptcy on the high end. You have no idea what you will pay when you go, they send you a bill in the mail that arrives 2-3 weeks later.

So we pretty much avoid interacting with the medical system at all costs.

If you do want to see a doctor or specialist it’s pretty easy since they are businesses, you just call them up and make an appointment. But what do I look like over here, John D. Rockefeller?

Then we die young of easily preventable diseases.

[-] semibreve42@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Your experience is real and is the case for millions of Americans, but healthcare insurance plans vary widely.

I work in a union job for a large nonprofit and I have excellent insurance. Visits to my PCP for preventative care are free, visits for anything else is $20. Specialists are generally $25. It’s also $25 for urgent care, $150 for the ER, though that’s refunded if you’re admitted. Hospital stays have no copay or deductible if they’re in network. All the major medical facilities near me are in network.

Monthly I pay ~$300 for my insurance, which is 12% of the cost, the other 88% is paid for by my employer. That covers me, my wife and my daughter.

Last year our insurance provider had a greater % of profit from our companies plan then legally allowed, so they had to refund a portion of our payments. My company refunded all that to us, so I got about a months worth refunded.

I’m fairly certain I’m in the top couple percent for healthcare quality, and it’s a real draw to me staying with my employer, though they’re great in pretty much every respect so it’s not the only draw.

I strongly support single payer healthcare because my experience is not the norm in the US and everyone should have the health security I have and feel.

[-] RovingFox@infosec.pub 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Romania you pay taxes from your salary or if you are a student then you are automatically covered. To access specialists you need a piece of paper from your designated doctor that confirms from him/her that you need a specialist.

The reality tho is that the state of the medical system is bad. Understaffed and equipment older then 40+ years.

[-] luthis@lemmy.nz 11 points 1 year ago

In NZ for basic healthcare, you call to make an appointment with your GP, go in later that day, they give you a prescription and you pay $5 for the medication and about $40 for the appointment.

For specialists in the public sector, there is a long waiting period, like a few months sometimes. You can pay for a private specialist, but it is of course expensive. Completely depends on the type of specialist etc.

Dental is not covered by public health care because we still live in 1864 apparently where barbers are meant to be pulling our teeth, but we are getting very close to having dental as part of public healthcare.

A huge amount of medication is subsidised here, basically anything life-saving like insulin, asthma medication, etc. I have an infinite supply of paracetamol because I just get it prescribed when I go to the doctors and pay nothing for it.

It really blows my mind that the US has an objectively vampiric and unfair healthcare system.

[-] luthis@lemmy.nz 5 points 1 year ago

Also hospital is free and ambulances ask for a donation of like $100.

[-] lazylion_ca@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago

I walk into the emergency ward, take a number, give my id to a clerk, sit down and browse ~~reddit~~ Lemmy for a couple hours, see a doc, get some treatment if needed, and leave with a prescription, maybe a referral, and probably a parking ticket.

Canada, eh?

[-] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago

Canadian here - pretty good outside surgeries. We've got a serious shortage of specialist surgeons up here so you're usually best going out of country for important non-emergency surgeries.

In my day job I track the US Healthcare system and it's even more of a shitshow than you imagine.

[-] obinice@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Healthcare is all free to the patient (the one caveat being a small, fixed charge for prescription medication - which is free for some groups), all paid for via national taxes based on wealth. UK.

If we need a specialist Doctor, we are referred to one. There's no money involved for the patient whatsoever.

Attaching an unaffordable fee to healthcare would be a clear barrier for anyone who is not upper class, and this would be seen as deeply discriminatory and thus unacceptable.

[-] Tatters@feddit.uk 6 points 1 year ago

There is also a private health care sector, with its own hospitals. A lot of consultants work in both the public (NHS) and private sectors, e.g., one day a week they will have a private clinic at a private hospital. The private sector is funded by insurance, and this is often a perk offered by employers. Waiting lists are generally shorter in the private sector, but, in my experience, the expertise and level of care is no better than the NHS.

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[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In the US, the reality is that we don't know.

Now that I'm insured, healthcare actually costs more than when I wasn't. And I'm not talking about premiums - I'm talking about copays and deductibles being non-negotiable.

For instance, I thought I may have hurt my ear scuba diving a few weeks ago, so I went to the ER to see if my eardrum was perforated (ENT visits can take months to get).

They told me it was, had me pay a $300 copay, prescribed me $130 eardrops my insurance wouldn't cover, and referred me to an ENT.

When I finally got to an ENT, they told me that my eardrum wasn't every perforated and the ER did didn't know what they were talking about.

Then I got an additional bill from the ER for another $1800 because my insurance company refused to pay the bill.

Had I been unisured the hospital bill would have been maybe $250 all-in after negotiations, but since I have insurance it's $2100 for a wildly wrong diagnosis that ended up costing me another $430 in specialists and prescriptions.

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[-] randomaccount43543@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

It doesn’t

[-] Nioxic@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In Denmark its paid through taxes.

I still have to pay to visit the dentist though, which can be quite expensive.

Regular doctors visits are free, but if youre refered to some specialist, like.. i had an issue with my knee, i was directed to some therapeutic pro. That cost me like 20 euros per visit. However, a friend of mine had to visit an eye doctor which was also free.

And medicine also is self paid, like antibiotics or whatever. Its rarely super expensive though.

But i when my kid was born we had no expenses at all. His mother had to stay (with him) for 2 days at the hospital and while there she had full free access to a stocked fridge, stuff for the baby (diapers etc) and all that jazz.

Ive not heard of anyone having other expenses either, like cancer treatments or getting a broken arm fixed

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[-] bdkmshr@monyet.cc 6 points 1 year ago

In Malaysia, you're treatment are mostly covered by the goverment through subsidies. You usually pay a percentage of the treatment cost. The only exception is cosmetic surgery and certain high end medications, i think. Despite that, there are still people that is unable to pay the fee and the goverment still provide some kind of monetary support or the public hospital helps by paying the remaining fee using available fund. As a result, there are long waiting time for treatment and the public hospital generally overcrowded and healthcare workers were overworked. Thus, most of our specialist or other healthcare workers would escape this hell hole for a much better paying job in private sector or in other country.

[-] Moghul@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I write or call my GP, they call me in for preliminary examination and/or conversation to determine the best course of action. Blood tests are usually done directly at the GP, either on the spot or within the week. Other simple tests like blood pressure are done at the GP too. I get the results in an app, and the app also tells me if the result is low or high or whatever.

If I need to see a specialist, the GP gives me a referral and I find one I like, or they queue me up and I get the appointment sent to me in the government's digital mail system. The appointment times vary but I've yet to be dissatisfied.

I go to the specialist, and they do their thing. Tests, interview, whatever. They decide on a diagnosis and prescribe medication. It's assigned to me digitally, and I can either get the meds at most pharmacies or immediately on the spot depending on what you need. You might see a specialist more than once to change or adjust treatment.

This is where you might start reaching for the wallet. All appointments, examinations, tests, etc. are paid for with taxes. In total, my income tax is 43% and VAT is 25%. That's totally fine by me. Medication prices vary of course. Some are free, some are cheap, some are expensive. Broadly speaking, people can afford their medication.

It's not a perfect system, but I have confidence in it, and am generally satisfied. Most issues are human in nature - I understand that women and immigrants (like myself) might not get the same quality of treatment, which of course sucks, and shouldn't happen. I haven't noticed any poor treatment but that might be due to my personality, gender, race, etc. Dental care isn't covered and is prohibitively expensive. I'd like this changed. Psychiatric care is rough, and doesn't really apply unless you have... significant issues. I don't know if you can get therapy through the system but the private stuff is prohibitively expensive.

Overall my experience has been a solid 8/10, and I've interacted with various elements of the healthcare system in Denmark

[-] hellweaver666@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 year ago

It’s Private (need insurance) but regulated by the government to ensure prices are fair and there is a fallback for people with low income.

[-] BilboBargains@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

In the UK the cost of healthcare is included in a tax called National Insurance, it's about 10% of wages. It can be thought of mostly as emergency use only. Mental health and minor ailments are not treated. If you want that kind of service you need to go private and most people cannot afford that so they go untreated. I know a newly qualified doctor who cannot find a job despite there being a shortage of doctors.

On the plus side, we do have a brand new aircraft carrier and a royal family.

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[-] SurpriZe@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

In Vietnam - an awful system where nothing works. Have to pay for private healthcare where docs have dubious education.

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[-] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 5 points 1 year ago

I have a card that gets scanned at the doctor's office. It contains most of my data plus history iirc. That's it.

[-] qyron@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 year ago

National Health Service, currently struggling with lack of personnel, but in general I have a family doctor I visit, on average, twice a year, for general check-up and follow-up. I can be recommended to a specialist if deemed necessary, with varying degrees of waitimg time.

For emergencies, I can either call a line, speak with someone and either have an ambulance sent directly to wherever I am or get directed to the nearest hospital, where they will already be expecting me.

No payments, even if I need an ambulance ride, a surgery and a few days in the hospital.

A good portion of people - mainly in large population centers - resort to private care, through health insurances, some out of pure need (pediatrics, cardiology, ob/gyn, psychology and psychiatry are specialities where long waiting lists exist) but the professionals working at the hospital are usually the same working private, due to a lack of effort from the state to make doctors exclusive to the NHS.

Private healthcare is usually faster to access and feels more luxurious but when things go very wrong you always get sent to the public hospitals. Cancer and other expensive care illnesses are sent to the NHS, which is usually the first to invest in expensive treatments to get a situation solved as quicky as possible and save time and money and free up space for the next in need.

Is it perfect? Hardly but it works. Nobody really knows or even understands how but it truly works.

[-] Sjy@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

Late but USA, wanted to share a personal experience. While at work I collapsed and had to take an ambulance to the hospital. I got sent the bills for everything. Including the ambulance ride. I stayed in the hospital overnight for observation. They couldn’t figure out what happened and I didn’t have symptoms anymore so I was discharged. Whole event cost maybe $500.

Here’s the kicker, I work(ed) as a paramedic for the ambulance company that transported me. I had insurance that was not from the company so prices were reasonable relative to what one would expect in the country. Had I been insured through work, well, the insurance provided by the company doesn’t cover transport by that company’s ambulance.

[-] Frogmanfromlake@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago

Rural Guatemala and it's mostly done through mobile doctors because it's so remote. We have universal healthcare on paper but the government spends so little on it that the resources are awful and private care tends to be a lot better and trustworthy.

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[-] cabbagee@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 year ago

America. Ideally you have insurance through work. Going to your PCP may be ~$50, same for specialists. Urgent care and ER will be higher, then there will be additional bills depending on what needs to be done and your insurance. Then there's "in-network" and "out-of-network". In-network will be covered more by insurance than out-of-network. It's tricky for hospital stays. In my area there are doctors who are out-of-network working at in-network hospitals. So you will get 2 separate bills - one from the hospital and one from the doctor.

Honestly it's terrifying having an emergency because you really don't know how much it could cost. Most insurance plans have a max out of pocket. One number for the individual, one for the family. The lowest I've seen is $2k/$6k while the highest was ~$16k/30k. I'm in a LCOL city though. Max or of pocket is the maximum you should ever have to pay for a single year. You will almost definitely hit this if you have a baby or need more than a couple days in a hospital.

For people with low income there are sometimes assistance programs at hospitals. One common outcome is you go into a payment plan and maybe years later your remaining debt is forgiven. The payment plans can be very cheap. I've heard of $25/mo. Still it's probably for a bill that's in the thousands if not 5 or 6 digits.

If you don't have insurance through work you can buy your own insurance but many people just wing it. Most hospitals will charge less when there is no insurance to bill. Maybe 1/3 what they would charge insurance. This will still be in the 4-6 digit range. So you go into a payment plan, or maybe there's additional financial assistance from the hospital, or you just ignore the bill and take the credit hit when it goes to collections.

There are programs through the government, Medicare and Medicaid. They cover quite a lot but if you're under 65 then I believe you have to be disabled to qualify.

The quality of care is generally high though, so that's cool.

[-] calypsopub@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

When I lived in Alberta, Canada (as a USA expat circa 2010), it had pluses and minuses. Pluses: The cost was very low; in our province the premiums were nominally $44 CDN per month for an individual or $88 per family, but the windfall from oil production meant they could waive that and it was free. Emergencies were treated quickly and well. Drugs were inexpensive. The doctors seemed competent. Minuses: extreme shortages of doctors, facilities, and services. I could not find a primary care doctor taking new patients, so I had to wait at least two hours each time to see a different doctor at the walk-in clinic. They did not take or keep a medical history, so it was all up to me to know if what they prescribed was contraindicated by other drugs or conditions. Drugs, while cheap, were not covered by insurance, and some were simply not available at any price. Dental and vision coverage were not included and had to be bought on the private market. Wait lists for non-emergency procedures or treatments were ridiculously long, like 18 months to get the first appointment to talk about a hip replacement. Three months to get an MRI to diagnose chest pain.

[-] mauwuro@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

In Mexico the government has their own health care system, if you are a Mexican citizen you have access to it for free (if you are a student or you work legally), it's sustained by taxes that employers pay to the government, there are two health care systems IMSS and ISSSTE, depending on if you work for the government you get one or another.

These institutions will give you the treatment that you need and surgerys as well, except cosmetic stuff. Since these institutions aren't optimal (usually takes a long time to get attention) you might prefer to use a private health care, and you just pay a private company for what you need or pay monthly for an insurance plan, which will cover certain hospitals and specific diseases

[-] mojo@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

With good insurance, I mostly just pay the copay. I do not have good insurance.

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this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2023
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