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How RCS on iPhone Will Make Texting Better for Everyone (www.cnet.com)
submitted 8 months ago by alb_004@lemm.ee to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 94 points 8 months ago

is not rcs simply another locked down standard under the thumb of google, which they have decided to limit and block on rooted devices in the past?

correct me if im wrong ? but this all seems like a freight train of no good barelling in. google propoganda has won out and we’re swapping one gatekept standard for another.

[-] vhstape@lemmy.sdf.org 69 points 8 months ago

I believe that RCS is a specification maintained by the GSM Association. That's not to say Google is not a member (they are) and has a strong influence, but Google doesn't own the standard either

[-] tentacles9999@lemmynsfw.com 55 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Last I had looked into it, although the standard exists, they use their own servers and are not compatible with other rcs implementations

[-] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 63 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

They are also the only RCS supplier on Android. A random messaging app can't simply add RCS messaging functionality.

It's not really much of an open standard at all, in practice.

[-] Kid_Thunder@kbin.social 12 points 8 months ago

They are also the only RCS supplier on Android. A random messaging app can’t simply add RCS messaging functionality.

You are correct that an app can't directly implement RCS but it can support it. RCS is implemented by the carrier, not by Google or any other text application.

RCS is an open standard that any carrier can implement to replace SMS/MMS. The only thing special that Google does is on top of RCS is provides E2E via its own servers for handling messaging. The E2E isn't a part of RCS, though it should be IMO. Regardless, Google doesn't 'own' the Android implementation because it isn't a part of Android, other than it can support the carrier's implementation of RCS.

[-] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 16 points 8 months ago

No app on Android can use RCS yet, other than Google messages.

[-] Kid_Thunder@kbin.social 7 points 8 months ago

Not true. Both Samsung and Verizon messages uses RCS, so long as your carrier has implemented RCS.

[-] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

Samsung had to sign a deal with Google with unknown terms and is Google messages underneath.

Verizon idk, I'm not American.

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[-] jaagruk@mander.xyz 3 points 8 months ago

Any FOSS or privacy friendly implementation?

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[-] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 13 points 8 months ago

E2EE via server sounds wrong.

[-] Kid_Thunder@kbin.social 6 points 8 months ago

Well sure. You've got to trust that Jibe isn't man in the middling the key exchanges but regardless, it doesn't change what I said.

[-] lengau@midwest.social 7 points 8 months ago

And just to note, the same is true of iMessage & Apple.

[-] ArtVandelay@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

If you didn't create private and exchange public keys with the other party, you aren't fully in control. I'm not saying that as some kind of righteous purist, just a technical point of note.

[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 26 points 8 months ago

The E2EE element of RCS has basically been a property Google thing, despite all their marketing BS about RCS seeming like some sort of open universal career messaging platform.

Although, allegedly they’ve finally relented and a universal encryption solution is now in the works.

[-] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 19 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

They don't own the standard, but they own the Android implementation of it. Other RCS implantations are hardcoded to not be supported on Android, with the exception of Samsung's - and they had to enter an agreement with Google (that we don't know the terms for) to do that, and even then it's just the Google implementation under the skin. I guess similar to all iOS browsers being Safari underneath.

It's not open unless you create your own new operating system and implement it that way.

Google's implementation also adds a bunch of closed-source extensions on top of the standard.

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[-] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 37 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Can confirm they block rooted Android users intentionally, completely silently, at least when using Google's RCS servers. The message just doesn't send and is automatically deemed spam if you don't pass PlayIntegrity. And the only RCS capable app is Google's Messages, third party apps can only access SMS and MMS functionnality.

So yeah, fuck RCS really. I was completely on board with RCS until that. Apple was right on that one. It won't fix messaging, it just puts it in Google's hands unless carriers finally decide to roll out real RCS instead of relying on Google to provide it.

Third party apps had that resolved a decade ago, and Signal is just plain better.

[-] KrapKake@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

You don't even have to be rooted. RCS won't work using a non-rooted custom ROM.

[-] Almrond@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

But in order to get that ROM you need an unlocked bootloader, breaking integrity (best case scenario is device level integrity, you can't get strong anymore). Google RCS will sort of work if you can pass Device, but in my experience things break silently if you don't pass Strong (massively delayed messages, messages not sending, and RCS randomly disabling for no reason at all in the middle of a conversation).

[-] SuperFola@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago

IIRC at least textra is also able to peruse RCS, though I’m sure it goes through google servers too

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[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 21 points 8 months ago

Moving forward, Google appears to be relenting to Apple, and will be giving up their control over RCS E2EE. Apple and Google are working with the GSMA on a universal standard that is not owned by a single gatekeeper.

That said, for v1 of RCS on iOS, since that universal encryption standard doesn’t exist, RCS will be unencrypted on iOS, allegedly. So, it’s likely to mean that, this fall, iOS to Android is still just as insecure as ever over carrier text messaging, but now images and videos won’t look like shit. Then at some point soon, cross platform messaging will get proper encryption.

We’ll probably need to wait until WWDC before we get more info on what’s actually happening with cross platform RCS.

[-] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 19 points 8 months ago

And it's still tied to your phone number!

Why would I want another messenger that's tied to a phone number?

RCS is too little, too late. I'll never use it.

[-] erwan@lemmy.ml 3 points 8 months ago

It's the natural evolution of SMS. And SMS does what no messaging app does, it lets me send a text message to any mobile number without having to wonder whether the other party has installed the same app as me.

When I make phone calls, it's between me, the person I'm calling and our carriers. I want it to be the same for text messages.

[-] NekkoDroid@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago

Sure, the other option is having it tied to an email, which is reliant on your single vendor and is also an easier way to create an army of spam bots. Phone numbers at least are transferable between carriers.

[-] rbits@lemm.ee 5 points 8 months ago

The email vendor doesn't really matter though unless you are sending or receiving emails. Phone numbers require you to pay a carrier every month. And while most people have phone numbers, some don't, especially children.

My mum used iMessage to communicate with my sister before she got a phone number. If she switched to Android, I guess there's Google Chat, but you know how Google is with their chat apps.

Ideally you'd be able to choose between phone number OR email. Like iMessage.

[-] Zak@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

If she switched to Android, I guess there’s Google Chat, but you know how Google is with their chat apps.

That's far from the only option. I can think of half a dozen relatively mainstream options off the top of my head (Signal, Telegram, Whatsapp, Discord, Matrix, Skype), though I think the first three still want a phone number. There are many more.

The trouble is getting people to agree on one.

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[-] cyrus@sopuli.xyz 10 points 8 months ago

RCS itself is an open standard (kind of), but Google Messages is literally the only RCS Client

There are no others. Like seriously you can barely find another usable RCS Client

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 7 points 8 months ago

sad! the world once again fell for google’s propaganda and deception just because they were able to muster up a good-guy attitude and a winning smile.

[-] abhibeckert@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

the world once again fell for google’s propaganda

Not really — since so far nobody else has adopted RCS. And not many people use the Google one either.

The Signal protocol is a defacto standard and on the path to becoming an actual standard. It's already the most widely used messaging protocol today except for perhaps Email... but email would only be larger if you include messages that were sent by bots. For human sent messages, Signal is the most widely used protocol in the world.

And as part of the DMA in Europe, Meta (which makes up most Signal users) is opening up their infrastructure so that any other messaging app can send/receive messages to their users. Which would essentially make it a perfect replacement for SMS and definitely better than RCS. You won't have to use WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger yourself, to be able to securely contact anyone who does.

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[-] Beaver@lemmy.ca 4 points 8 months ago

They better not obstruct the Linux phones.

[-] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 7 points 8 months ago

Obstruct? No. Not even think about? Yes.

[-] 2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 8 months ago

I don't assume anyone has written a real client yet but there's a library you can use: https://github.com/Hirohumi/rust-rcs-client

[-] nevemsenki@lemmy.world 26 points 8 months ago

Let's use a protocol that shadily blocks everything google doesn't like. Yeah, fuck that.

[-] thorbot@lemmy.world 19 points 8 months ago

Right? Google cries about how Apple is so exclusive with their messaging and still pulls the same draconian shit. What a joke

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[-] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 21 points 8 months ago

I still don't get what's so great about RCS over SMS/MMS? There's E2EE but that won't be in this implementation apparently.

[-] bassomitron@lemmy.world 34 points 8 months ago

Being able to send pictures and videos without SMS/MMS downscaling them to like 144p (hell I've had it be even worse than that for videos sometimes) is incredibly handy. That's the main benefit for me. Others have commented about the other features. And I'm fairly certain the article did state E2EE will be implemented.

[-] drislands@lemmy.world 25 points 8 months ago

A variety of small but useful features. Typing indicator, reactions, read receipts, and larger media limits. I'm sure there's more, that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

[-] dditty@lemm.ee 19 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

You can send rcs messages over Wifi even if you don't have a cell signal, like iMessage. You can also get iPhone emoji reactions to messages instead of getting a text message saying "X hearted this," or w/e

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[-] cyrus@sopuli.xyz 6 points 8 months ago

okay, so, the idea was initially to build something akin to SMS/MMS in the way it's used but make it more ready for the modern age

just a couple of problems:

  • End-To-End-Encryption isn't officially a part of RCS itself thanks to Telcom companies in the US not being allowed to add that
  • Google Messages is literally the only way to use RCS right now.
  • It's "open"-ness is quite disputed due to Google's control over it

really, we should either be using Matrix, or at the very least build out XMPP into something more modern.

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[-] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 4 points 8 months ago

Videos that don't compress to hell when there's both iOS and Android in a chat, that's the main feature.

[-] Psythik@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

One feature I found extremely useful is that you can now quote previous texts. Less useful is the ability to react to texts with emojis. But it's good for letting someone know that you saw/liked their message by reacting with a thumbs up.

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[-] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

It only has E2EE if you use Google's proprietary implementation. And even then it's not the best implementation of E2EE.

There has been some chatter of adding it to the RCS spec, though.

Not that it matters that much, on Android you're still locked to Google's RCS API and the same will be true to iOS with Apple's.

[-] wewbull@feddit.uk 2 points 8 months ago

Blue bubbles.

(I'm half joking)

[-] LeTak@lemm.ee 17 points 8 months ago

RCS makes everything better by forcing us to add a second proprietary communication standard to our phone that is advertised by Google and required by Chinese law regulations. And is also know for bad security…. What could possibly go wrong.

[-] stefano@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Does it have end to end encryption like iMessage or WhatsApp? No. The winners and the losers are clear to me.

[-] Kekzkrieger@feddit.de 18 points 8 months ago

more like Signal, which is superior to Whatsapp snd iMessage

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[-] venusaur@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

And then there’s Outlook just being its ancient self.

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this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2024
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