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submitted 6 months ago by sverit@lemmy.ml to c/technology@lemmy.world

There were a number of exciting announcements from Apple at WWDC 2024, from macOS Sequoia to Apple Intelligence. However, a subtle addition to Xcode 16 — the development environment for Apple platforms, like iOS and macOS — is a feature called Predictive Code Completion. Unfortunately, if you bought into Apple's claim that 8GB of unified memory was enough for base-model Apple silicon Macs, you won't be able to use it. There's a memory requirement for Predictive Code Completion in Xcode 16, and it's the closest thing we'll get from Apple to an admission that 8GB of memory isn't really enough for a new Mac in 2024.

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[-] Jtee@lemmy.world 127 points 6 months ago

And now all the fan boys and girls will go out and buy another MacBook. That's planned obsolescence for ya

[-] bamboo@lemm.ee 60 points 6 months ago

Someone who is buying a MacBook with the minimum specs probably isn’t the same person that’s going to run out and buy another one to get one specific feature in Xcode. Not trying to defend Apple here, but if you were a developer who would care about this, you probably would have paid for the upgrade when you bought it in the first place (or couldn’t afford it then or now).

[-] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago

Well no, not this specific scenario, because of course devs will generally buy machines with more RAM.

But there are definitely people who will buy an 8GB Apple laptop, run into performance issues, then think "oh I must need to buy a new MacBook".

If Apple didn't purposely manufacture ewaste-tier 8GB laptops, that would be minimised.

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[-] mp3@lemmy.ca 24 points 6 months ago

And why they solder the RAM, or even worse make it part of the SoC.

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 47 points 6 months ago

There are real world performance benefits to ram being as close as possible to the CPU, so it's not entirely without merit. But that's what CAMM modules are for.

[-] akilou@sh.itjust.works 23 points 6 months ago

But do those benefits outweigh doubling or tripling the amount of RAM by simply inserting another stick that you can buy for dozens of dollars?

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago

That's extremely dependent on the use case, but in my opinion, generally no. However CAMM has been released as an official JEDEC interface and does a good job at being a middle ground between repairability and speed.

[-] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago

It's an officially recognized spec, so Apple will ignore it as long as they can. Until they can find a way to make money from it or spin marketing as if it's some miraculous new invention of theirs, for something that should just be how it's done.

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[-] Hux@lemmy.ml 96 points 6 months ago

This isn’t a big deal.

If you’re developing in Xcode, you did not buy an 8GB Mac in the last 10-years.

If you are just using your Mac for Facebook and email, I don’t think you know what RAM is.

If you know what RAM is, and you bought an 8GB Mac in the last 10-years, then you are likely self-aware of your limited demands and/or made an informed compromise.

[-] filister@lemmy.world 38 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

If you know what RAM is, and you bought an 8GB Mac in the last 10-years, then you are likely self-aware of your limited demands and/or made an informed compromise.

Or you simply refuse to pay $200+ to get a proper machine. Like seriously, 8GB Mac's should have disappeared long ago, but nope, Apple stick to them with their planned obsolescence tactics on their hardware, and stubbornly refusing to admit that in 2023 releasing a MacBook with soldered 8Gb of RAM is wholy inadequate.

[-] Specal@lemmy.world 31 points 6 months ago

I get around this by simply not buying a Mac. Free's up so much money for ram.

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[-] DJDarren@thelemmy.club 15 points 6 months ago

I’m not gonna stand up and declare that 8gb is absolutely fine, because in very short order it won’t be. But yeah, currently for an average use case, it is.

My work Mac mini has 8gb. It’s a 2014 so can’t be upgraded, but for the tasks I ask of it it’s ok. Sure, it gets sluggish if I’m using the Win11 VM I sometimes need, but generally I don’t really have any issues doing regular office tasks.

That said, I sometimes gets a bee in my bonnet about it, so open Activity Monitor to see what’s it’s doing, and am shocked by how much RAM some websites consume in open tabs in Safari.

8gb is generally ok on low end gear, but devs are working very hard to ensure that it’s not.

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[-] _number8_@lemmy.world 83 points 6 months ago

imagine showing this post to someone in 1995

shit has gotten too bloated these days. i mean even in my head 8GB still sounds like 'a lot' of RAM and 16GB feels extravagant

[-] rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 23 points 6 months ago

I still can't fully accept that 1GB is not normal, 2GB is not very good, and 4GB is not all you ever gonna need.

If only it got bloated for some good reasons.

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[-] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 16 points 6 months ago

I chalk it up to lazy rushed development. Good code is art.

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[-] Bjornir@programming.dev 13 points 6 months ago

I have a VPS that uses 1GB of RAM, it has 6-7 apps running in docker containers which isn't the most ram efficient method of running apps.

A light OS really helps, plus the most used app that uses a lot of RAM actually reduce their consumption if needed, but use more when memory is free, the web browser. On one computer I have chrome running with some hundreds of MB used, instead of the usual GBs because RAM is running out.

So it appears that memory is full,but you can actually have a bit more memory available that is "hidden"

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[-] resetbypeer@lemmy.world 76 points 6 months ago

Opens chrome on a 8GB Mac. Sees lifespan of SSD being reduced by 50%. After 2-3 years of heavy usage SSD starts to get errors. Apple solution: buy a new one. No wonder they are 2nd/3rd wealthiest company on the planet.

[-] otp@sh.itjust.works 22 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

buy a new one.

Buy a new SSD and swap out the old one?

...buy a new SSD, right??

[-] WereCat@lemmy.world 20 points 6 months ago

SSD is soldered to the board. With only 8GB you'll be using the swap partiton a lot so for anything exceeding 8GB of RAM you will be using the SSD as a slower "RAM" which will wear it's lifespan down by constantly writing/reading into it' s swap partition.

[-] maxinstuff@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

“tHATs nOT tRuE the aRCHiteCTuRe iS cOmPlETlY dIffErEnT!!!!!1!11!!ONEONE!!!” <— Apple fanboys when this was predicted on launch of the M1 🤖

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[-] resetbypeer@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

You don't get the most valuable company by selling a SSD. So, yeah a new Mac of course.

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[-] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 56 points 6 months ago

They moved to on-die RAM for a reason: To nickel and dime yo ass.

I needed to expense a Mac Mini for iOS development, and everyone (Me, the company, our purchasing department) was baffled at how much it cost to get 16 GB. And they only go up to 24GB. Imagine how much they'll charge for 32 in a year!

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[-] egeres@lemmy.world 47 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Why do they struggle so much with some "obvious things" sometimes ? We wouldn't have a type-C iphone if the EU didn't pressured them to do make the switch

[-] TheSealStartedIt@lemmy.world 24 points 6 months ago

💸💸💸

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[-] Evotech@lemmy.world 46 points 6 months ago

8GB of dedicated VRAM is hardly enough these days...

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 44 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

HP seems to think 4 GB is an acceptable amount of RAM to put in a modern notebook (although they don't charge even close to what Apple charges).

https://www.amazon.com/HP-Micro-edge-Microsoft-14-dq0040nr-Snowflake/dp/B0947BJ67M

Edit: Thinking about it, this is worse. Apple isn't targeting low-income people. This is HP selling the poor a computer that doesn't work properly.

[-] woelkchen@lemmy.world 37 points 6 months ago

Shipping with Windows S. That's Microsoft's version of a Chromebook for some light web browsing for 188 dollars. I wouldn't buy it but this doesn't look like a rip off at this price point.

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[-] homura1650@lemm.ee 17 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

At a $188 price point. An additional 4GB of memory would probably add ~$10 to the cost, which is over a 5% increase. However, that is not the only component they cheaped out on. The linked unit also only has 64GB of storage, which they should probably increase to have a usable system ...

And soon you find that you just reinvented a mid-market device instead of the low-market device you were trying to sell.

4GB of ram is still plenty to have a functioning computer. It will not be as capable of a more powerful computer, but that comes with the territory of buying the low cost version of a product.

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[-] SpeedLimit55@lemmy.world 42 points 6 months ago

8GB is definitely not enough for coding, gaming, or most creative work but it’s fine for basic office/school work or entertainment. Heck my M1 Macbook Air is even good with basic Photoshop/Illustrator work and light AV editing. I certainly prefer my PC laptop with 32GB and a dedicated GPU but its power adapter weighs more than a Macbook Air.

[-] cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 35 points 6 months ago

8GB would be fine for basic use if it was upgradable. With soldered RAM the laptop becomes e-waste when 8GB is no longer enough.

[-] slaacaa@lemmy.world 14 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Yeah, the soldering is outrageous. I miss the time when Apple was a (more) customer friendly company. I could open my Mac mini 2009 and just add more RAM, which I did.

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[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 35 points 6 months ago

They should do 4Gb. I hear M3 mac's make it seem like 8Gb.

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

If you allocate it right, you can add 200GB of swap space and then that 4GB of RAM will feel like 408GB!

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[-] maxinstuff@lemmy.world 32 points 6 months ago

Oh man, I remember so many people defended 8GB since the M1 first came out (and since).

I always argued it would significantly reduce the lifetimes of these machines if you bought one, not just because you’d be swapping a lot more on the (soldered in BTW) ssd, but because after a few years of updates it would become unbearably slow, or hardware would fail, or both.

Didn’t stop people constantly “tHe aRchITecTuRE iS cOmPlETelY diFFeRenT!!!”

Sure it’s different, but it’s still just a computer. A technical person can still look at the spec sheet and calculate effective performance accounting for bus widths etc.

Disclosure: I bought a top spec 16GB M1 Mac Air on launch and have been extremely happy with it - it’s still going strong.

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[-] RecluseRamble@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 6 months ago

I can't believe, there's no Linux reference yet!

Give your "8 gigs not enough" hardware to one of us and see it revived running faster than whatever you're running now with your subpar OS.

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[-] small44@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

For who? My mother who only use facebook, youtube and googling don't need 8gb

[-] Glowstick@lemmy.world 36 points 6 months ago

Sounds like all she needs is a dirt cheap chromebook then

[-] small44@lemmy.world 14 points 6 months ago
[-] Glowstick@lemmy.world 32 points 6 months ago

Then her situation isn't applicable to this topic

[-] cybersandwich@lemmy.world 20 points 6 months ago

This comment chain made me chuckle. It's such an "internet comment section" ..trope? I don't know the right word.

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this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2024
741 points (95.6% liked)

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