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[-] can@sh.itjust.works 120 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

What the actual fuck

Edit:

With Jimmy Wales’ assent, the WMF removed and locked the page. As unhappy as Wikipedians were about it, blocking content can be temporary. If the Foundation reveals these editors’ identities, this is a decision it can never reverse.

Guess I'll be watching this one closely.

[-] otter@lemmy.ca 71 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

In a recent court proceeding, WMF’s legal team offered a supposed middle path, proposing it take the unusual step of serving summons to the editors itself, thereby revealing their identities only to the court, not the wider public. Wikipedians, however, do not see this as a compromise—it’s capitulation. Last week, Wikipedia editors published an open letter to the Foundation, urging it to protect its volunteers’ privacy regardless of the outcome. It reads in part

only to the court, not the wider public

Would this really be that much better? Once the information is out, it's impossible to hide again

And the consequences would not end with this case. Compliance may discourage contributions from editors worldwide, not just those under authoritarian rule. WMF submission could encourage other governments to make similar demands, putting Wikipedia in an untenable position and reducing its influence where free knowledge is needed most

This bit also seemed important

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 44 points 1 month ago

Wikipedia has plenty of experience being blocked in the world’s largest country, which was the case until India’s population surpassed China’s in April 2023. If India takes the most drastic step, the Foundation can stand proud in its resolve.

Sounds easy enough to me.

[-] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 38 points 1 month ago

Jimbo's justification is that if they don't do this to the page, they'll completely lose their chance of arguing in court, and 1. they can always restore it if the court orders something they decide not to do 2. the contents of the article are already archived all over the internet

[-] tb_@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago

However, I can tell you that I went into the call initially very skeptical of the idea of even temporarily taking down this page and I was persuaded very quickly by a single fact that changed my mind: if we did not comply with this order, we would lose the possibility to appeal and the consequences would be dire in terms of achieving our ultimate goals here. For those who are concerned that this is somehow the WMF giving in on the principles that we all hold so dear, don't worry.

Seems reasonable

[-] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 1 month ago

I would never have become aware that that article existed if not for everyone talking about it being censored. The Streisand effect seems to still be alive.

[-] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Isn't it pretty normal for judges to prohibit plaintiffs and defendants from talking about active court cases outside of the court room? I doubt Asian News International is allowed to publish articles about the case, either.

[-] droans@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Gag orders in the US are issued very rarely.

[-] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 51 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I never bought the "world biggest democracy" publicity stun. And each day it's more and more obvious that India is not a true democracy. They have always prosecuted and try to kill anyone opposing the regime, and half the population (women) don't have the same rights as men. They are one of the lowest countries in gender equality index. Without half the population it is imposible to be a democracy.

[-] kava@lemmy.world 21 points 1 month ago

most democratic countries cosplay as democracies. just like most communist countries cosplayed as communist.

ideology in its purest form. After the death of God, you need something to fill that unapproachable void. So you inject ideals- civil service, egalitarianism, tolerance, justice, etc -- values that are virtuous and aspirational, but ultimately are just shiny veneers over a darker truth. it functions as scaffolding for systems that serve the interests of raw power. it is theater. performance. spectacle. underneath, the mechanisms of control, inequality, and corruption remain unchanged.

don't make the mistake of believing that India is somehow unique here

[-] infeeeee@lemm.ee 45 points 1 month ago

You can edit wikipedia fully privately, if you live in a similar jurisdiction. There are some limitations on Tor, but from these articles it sounds like it's possible to work it around:

It's not super easy, but it doesn't sound like some insurmountable obstacle.

[-] interurbain1er@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 month ago

Good luck getting an edit to stick when you're doing it privately on a high traffic or political page. Wikipedia is known to have an entrenched little clique that works hard at gatekeeping.

[-] infeeeee@lemm.ee 10 points 1 month ago

You can't do it on clearnet without some reputation either. I meant that you can register anonymously, than work yourself up to get some reputation and rights, than you can edit your favorite political post. I think the 2 things are orthogonal.

[-] Dupree878@lemmy.world 39 points 1 month ago

So block the article in India but there’s no reason to block it in the rest of the world. Fuck India’s government gonna do to them?

[-] tb_@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago

We were blocked in Turkey for 3 years or so, and fought all the way to the Supreme Court and won. Nothing has changed about our principles. The difference in this case is that the short term legal requirements in order to not wreck the long term chance of victory made this a necessary step.

Hopefully not block the entire website in India.

[-] LorIps@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Why? VPNs exist and fuck Modi

[-] tb_@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

Not everyone knows of/has access to VPN's.

I don't disagree with your sentiment, but I also get why they'd rather try to resolve it legally. If they succeed it will allow for much easier access for the majority of visitors.

[-] horse_battery_staple@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

They'll learn quickly. The Arab Spring bore that out.

[-] tb_@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

And where are those Arab countries now?

[-] horse_battery_staple@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

Reading Wikipedia

[-] Ilandar@aussie.zone 23 points 1 month ago

Ah yes, an account called "wikipediasucks" that only posts negative links about Wikipedia...

[-] TheTimeKnife@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago

More authoritarian bull shit from India and the BJP.

[-] rain_worl@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago
[-] can@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago

Well I never

[-] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 7 points 1 month ago
[-] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 month ago

Doesn't apply in this case, it's about a decision that is still pending

[-] stinky@redlemmy.com 4 points 1 month ago
[-] hector@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 month ago

You can click the article to find out!

[-] stinky@redlemmy.com 0 points 1 month ago
[-] LodeMike@lemmy.today 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

https://www.thewikipedian.net/p/wmf-bjp-court-order-sell-out-principles

Edit: Don't downvote this person please. They just phrased their question badly.

this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2024
229 points (84.0% liked)

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