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submitted 2 weeks ago by Zeon@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

Hello, I'm not that informed about UBI, but here is my arguement:

Everyone gets some sort of income, but wouldn't companies just subside the income by raising their prices? Also, do you believe capatilism can co-exist with UBI?

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[-] Free_Opinions@feddit.uk 2 points 2 weeks ago

I tend to support it because who says no to free money, but I'm not informed enough to form a strong opinion one way or another.

[-] olafurp@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

I support it. It's an insanely expensive policy though and should be implemented carefully and be based on income. An example would be:

  • No income $1000 a month
  • Min wage $500 a month

Combined with better tax policies that don't tax poor people. Health, education and other basic services should be almost free while having a strong social housing programme.

This way nobody gets priced out of living and there's still plenty of incentive to get a job while having some funds to invest in hygiene and clothing to land the job.

This amount and threshold should be increased in the future.

I really support UBI since you can better model the demand curve with externalities instead of making things free while having it accessible to poor people. Free school might be too low of a cost when calculating benefits to the individual and society so giving people money to afford a heavily subsidised cost would allow for more accurate economics.

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[-] frezik@midwest.social 2 points 2 weeks ago

One method of structuring it is that if UBI is $20k/year, then you have $20k/year taken out as taxes as long as you have a job. The income is neutral, so there's no basis for companies to raise prices.

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[-] TurboHarbinger@feddit.cl 2 points 2 weeks ago

Be aware that UBI needs to go in hand with other reforms that can finance it, eliminating things like tax evasion via donations, and certain foundations that exploit those

[-] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Yes I'm 100% for it, And no, companies DGAF where your money comes from as long as you buy stuff. UBI is the only way capitalism can exist at all long-term, because to exist it requires customers. With the continuing drive to eliminate employees, eventually so many people will be unemployed that if nothing happens to supply them with money for shopping, they won't be able to shop. Before we even get to the stage of food riots and massive social unrest, businesses will start feeling the drop in sales and profits. They really have no motivation to oppose UBI - which of course won't stop the more short-sighted ones from opposing UBI, because people often do things that hurt themselves in the long run (see MAGA). But overall UBI is ultimately one way of keeping capitalism afloat as employees become less and less necessary.

[-] weeeeum@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

Maybe depending on the situation, and whether or not we can properly tax those who need to pay for most of it.

If it continues as it is now, with corporate entities and billionaires paying nearly nothing in taxes, I wouldn't support it. It only alienates the upperclass who we want on our side. Millionaires compared to billionaires is a similar scale to min wage workers to millionaires. We need to make it clear we are not after the 1%, but the 0.1%.

In addition to a UBI there needs to be some kind of price control. Otherwise I would fear that it'd simply subsidize corporate price gouging. Rents would immediately shoot up.

[-] bear@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 2 weeks ago

Only as a replacement for any and all existing government welfare programs. Welfare and charity and investment are all best done decentralized and local as possible but what we have is so inefficient that this would be a huge improvement.

[-] WILSOOON@programming.dev 1 points 2 weeks ago

What is ubi? Univeral bread initiative ?

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[-] Acters@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

only if that income is required for basic necessities and everyone will need in their lives. for a generalization, there are three things I can think of the top of my head that everyone needs. It is to have housing, healthcare, and food. There are many more basic needs people should have fulfilled but I digress.

Currently in many first world and third world countries/classes are reliant on funding to fulfill most if not all basic needs. That is when it should be mandatory for UBI. How is something like that funded? like everything else. we all pay for it. Call it taxes, call it charity, call it whatever you want.

Yet, Why would someone need UBI for basic needs? well mostly because the general public is more divided and distrustful of centralized sources/authorities. Yet the only way UBI would be able to occur is with that kind of system.

So in all I don't think UBI would be supported by me. I like federated services and decentralization. I don't like the current state of all basic needs being behind paywalls. It is disappointing. I don't know what would help us the most, but moving into this direction is just not what I can see would be kind to people who are low on economic scales or helpful for most who are barely scraping by. Even if I live more or less comfortably right now, I see many basic needs in my life that I would still want to improve substantially or become available for me to act on.

[-] Not_mikey@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I've soured on it recently, if you gave everyone $1000 a month then your landlord is just going to raise your rent by $1000.

If full socialism is out of the picture, and we could enact something like UBI I think we should expand disability and social security for those who can't work and then do a universal guaranteed jobs program for those who can work because:

  1. It's way more politically viable. It's going to be almost impossible to convince a majority of Americans to "pay people to sit around all day". They'd be way more open to it if they're doing a job.

  2. We could use the labor on fields that the market doesn't value, such as building green infrastructure or social work for low income individuals. This would go along with expanding the definition of a job to any work that is benefiting society. If you're a parent spending all your time caring for a young or disabled child then that's a job and you should get paid for it.

  3. It you increase the wage for these guaranteed jobs that effectively raises the minimum wage since the private employers have to compete with the government. Why work at McDonald's for $10 an hour when the government is paying $15. If you raise UBI that may decrease wages as employers will use it as an excuse to pay less.

  4. Even for people making above minimum wage it gives the worker more bargaining power since your employer loses the threat of throwing you onto the streets. This is also true for UBI but only if it's enough to fully cover a comfortable life which I don't think will happen due to the inflation it may cause.

  5. It increases production which can help to increase supply and cover for the increase in demand giving people that much money will cause so inflation is checked more.

  6. People neeed a job, as in the expanded definition I gave above, it's a big part of how people make meaning in there life. The best case for someone not working would be they just play video games all day, worst case they turn to drug use.

[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago

I’ve soured on it recently, if you gave everyone $1000 a month then your landlord is just going to raise your rent by $1000.

UBI empowers tenants and alternate living situations.

  1. Every neighbourhood is instantly gentrified. That can be higher rents, but its good for shopping deserts and no crime.
  2. You have "move out" money if the landlord is an asshole.
  3. Renting rooms to people is lower risk because you know they can pay.
  4. Home ownership, is more bankable because you have income security independent of your job. Again, subleting/renting parts of home is easier if you lose your job.
  5. You can move to brand new area, including lower cost "ghost town" areas without having a job lined up first.
  6. If you don't want to work, you don't really need to be living in high cost city. Smaller/cheaper towns look fine.

Sure people will want nicer places to live, but there's more options than renting with UBI, and other power dynamics that permit tenants to escape due to other options.

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[-] The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I've wondered the same thing. Seems like it would need to be paired with price controls or public control of essentials, but that's sort of a "seize the means of production" conversation that I don't think would be popular unless something like AI genuinely puts enough people out of work.

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this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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