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Extreme heat killed over 1300 Hajj pilgrims in 2024 (climateandcapitalism.com)
submitted 1 week ago by OneRedFox@beehaw.org to c/socialism@beehaw.org
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[-] tardigrada@beehaw.org 4 points 1 week ago

Saudi authorities have installed air-conditioned shelters and other cooling methods. But these are only available to pilgrims with official permits. Most of those who died did not have permits, meaning they could not access cool relief.

This is absolutely devastating, there's absolutely no doubt. When reading the article, though, I didn't understand why this is an article in this particular community. Maybe Saudi Arabia should provide more cooling methods, or not let too many people in?

Although climate change is, of course, caused by Western-style capitalism, it is by far not the only reason. China, a socialist country, is the world's largest coal producer and importer, and coal likely remains the bedrock of China's energy system for at least another decade.

I feel this is a well-researched article, but maybe the wrong community?

[-] OneRedFox@beehaw.org 8 points 1 week ago

Nah, this is the right community for this article. climateandcapitalism is an ecosocialist publication and mitigating climate disaster is a key policy goal for most socialists, so it is important for us to observe the consequences of climate change and think about effective solutions for various communities.

[-] tardigrada@beehaw.org 2 points 1 week ago

Why has this been deleted then if I may ask?

[-] alyaza@beehaw.org 4 points 1 week ago

better fit for the World News or Environmental sections, nothing more

[-] tardigrada@beehaw.org 1 points 1 week ago

Let me say that this is on you and Beehaw, I just think it is an article about the Haji. The solution here is to just provide enough cooling methods I would say. I feel putting this in a wider 'capitalist and climate' frame is a bit overdone.

Climate change is our all issue, and it's caused by self-defined capitalist and socialist countries alike. Similar things happen in Brazil's Amazon region, in Asia, almost across China's BRI, and across the globe. It's not unique to socialism.

But, again, it's on you and I don't want to make that a big issue. Sometimes it's better to agree to disagree :-)

[-] alyaza@beehaw.org 4 points 1 week ago

The solution here is to just provide enough cooling methods I would say. I feel putting this in a wider ‘capitalist and climate’ frame is a bit overdone.

in what way? Saudi Arabia is already so hot (and at times humid) that going outside at all is potentially lethal--in no small part because it is a capitalist petrostate whose existence is predicated on cheap oil warming the planet--which also renders much of the Hajj literally impossible to do in any safe manner since it must be done outside. the climactic and capitalistic ties are fairly obvious here to me.

also, it's worth noting, the article explicitly notes one problem (of several) with your proposed solution:

Technological adaptations such as air-conditioning do work. But they are not available to all. Nor are they fail-safe. During a heat wave, many of us turn on the aircon at the same time, using lots of power and raising the chance of blackouts. Blackouts during heat waves can have deadly consequences.

[-] tardigrada@beehaw.org 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

As I said, I fully support that this is an issue, and it's a good article. I wouldn't have expected to be in this commmunity. When I see a comm called 'Socialism' I wouldn't expext an analysis on the Haji in Saudi Arabia. But it's a big problem for all of us, and especially for countries like SA where it's already been hot even before the climate change, of course.

Addition: Global coal demand is on the rise as you might have read, just posted something. Why has that been deleted?

[-] alyaza@beehaw.org 6 points 1 week ago

When I see a comm called ‘Socialism’ I wouldn’t expext an analysis on the Haji in Saudi Arabia.

i mean, no offense but: virtually all contemporary subjects are shaped by class conflict or capitalist hegemony and it seems like it'd be a much better use of time for socialists to explicitly and plainly make those connections, than endlessly theorypost or relitigate the anarchist/communist or social democrat/socialist or Trotskyist/ML splits

[-] tardigrada@beehaw.org 2 points 1 week ago

That's perfectly alright. As I asked above in this threat, I don't understand why this has been just deleted. But, again, it's on you. That's your server. No two people agree on everything.

[-] OneRedFox@beehaw.org 1 points 1 week ago

Well, you're free to your opinion on that one.

What kind of cooling methods specifically should be implemented here?

[-] millie@beehaw.org 3 points 1 week ago

This does seem like more of a climate change related article. That said, access to cooling shelters could also be construed as an issue of social safety nets.

I do kind of feel like the moderation in this particular community or subcommunity or whatever we're calling it is a little bit subject to unilateral judgement calls that reflect personal preference more than particularly justifiable positions. Oh well. Can't win them all.

this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2024
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