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Bernie Sanders wades into MAGA Civil War to trash Elon Musk (www.thedailybeast.com)
submitted 2 days ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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Summary

Senator Bernie Sanders criticized Elon Musk over his support for the H-1B visa program, calling it a tool for corporations to replace good-paying American jobs with lower-wage foreign labor.

Sanders cited data showing U.S. companies laid off 85,000 American workers between 2022 and 2023 while hiring 34,000 H-1B visa holders, arguing this undermines U.S. competitiveness.

Musk, who credits the visa program for his success, defended it, stating he's ready to "go to war" over the issue.

The debate has divided MAGA conservatives, exposing rifts within Trump's coalition.

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[-] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 22 points 19 hours ago

Put a hold on that popcorn. It's not a civil war. Elon and Trump are in agreement. What's happening is some MAGA supporters are going through the five stages of grief. They seem to be somewhere around anger and bargaining. Trump conned his supporters like he conned his employees before them. Now Trump supporters are working their way to accepting Trump was always going to enrich himself and billionaires at their expense.

Now would be a good time to start pulling people away from MAGA. People need an alternative. Taking the wealth of billionaires as well as the source of their wealth would be a good start. Not to mention systemic change to our government's institutions.

[-] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Now would be a good time to start pulling people away from MAGA.

I don't know a single maga who has the slightest chance at being turned. All the magas in my life are just people who I know are either 1) Willfully ignorant or 2) Hateful.

What I'm pulling them away from is any relationship with me and my family.

[-] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 hours ago

The same is pretty much true with my family as well. However thanks to the internet we have access to a larger subset of people than just our families.

[-] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Fair, and I appreciate the wisdom of both your original comment and this reply.

Nonetheless, after 4 to 8 years of trying to convince magas that they are victims of a grifter and members of a cult, I feel pessimistic about the number of peelable magas out there, my ability to do any peeling, and frankly the depth of motivation I feel to continue banging my head against the wall.

[-] skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 18 hours ago

How about MANS.

Make America Not Suck.

Their whole shtick would jive with a thing called MANS too.

[-] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 16 hours ago

That's the thing. It's not enough to only be against something, although we still need to do that too. We have to be for something. We should definitely pick things we would be happy with too.

Thinking back to school, I had an ethics teacher ask the class what we thought the meaning of life is. The consensus from the class was whatever we believe. Then our teacher asked a follow up, in that case, what do we believe it means. No one had an answer.

We need to decide what we believe is important to us, what we value, and then figure out the most useful strategy to making that reality. We want to dismantle hierarchies, but that means thinking about what our lives would be without those hierarchies.

Right now, people are being told to imagine a world without certain groups of people, on the false promise that the elimination of people will improve their lives. We need to get people to imagine a world without certain classes of people. The elimination of class will give us economic freedom so that we will have the means to improve our lives.

[-] skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 16 hours ago

Right now, people are being told to imagine a world without certain groups of people

You hit the nail on the head right there. It always boils down to focusing large groups of people against something, and for something, and often that something is people.

We need to fix the core concept of being against people. I actually like the concept of H1-B for example, it gives people in worse economic standing a leg-up.

However, setting up a system to game domestic work against foreign work, with the main focus being allowing the corpos to lie, and not pay fair wages, in exchange for slave labor isn't a system.

[-] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 16 hours ago

It isn't a system we should want to continue anyway. Immigration should be an opportunity for equality, not indentured servitude.

[-] theneverfox@pawb.social 1 points 15 hours ago

Good point. Here's my pitch - Reboot America. Let's turn it off and on again

Dismiss everyone. Hand out free food from strategic reserves, put a hold on all utility shutoffs and evictions, maybe cut some checks for people - let's take some time, put everything on life support, and unfuck the system

How? Bottom up. Organize, take the local and state elections, call a constitutional convention. Let's use the second to last option, the ripcord built into the Constitution for exactly this sort of situation

I don't think it could happen fast enough to really matter, but I think it would get people moving in the right direction, and in the meantime apply pressure with a compelling but nonviolent threat

[-] the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 day ago

So now Bernie sanders is pulling a "they're taking our jobs"? We are living in strange times.

[-] Enkrod@feddit.org 2 points 11 hours ago

Those immigrants are basically being worked as indentured slaves whose only way to remain in the US is to accept whatever bad deal the corpos throw at them. IF the immigrants were guaranteed the same wages with no dependency on their employers to stay in the US and look for fair work, he would have far less of a problem with it. On a level playing field immigration is okay, but if the corpos basically import slave labor it's not.

Right now H-1B visas are being used to play the foreign working class against the domestic working class, this is precisely what he argues against.

[-] ZMonster@lemmy.world 16 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

“The cheaper the labor they hire, the more money the billionaires make,” Sanders added.

Easy

So now Bernie sanders is pulling a "they're taking our jobs"?

Jesus

Honestly can't tell if serious

[-] the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 0 points 11 hours ago

What if I told you that illegal immigrants are essentially slaves, and far cheaper to hire than visa holders?

[-] ZMonster@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

What if I told you, "no shit sherlock".

[-] banshee@lemmy.world 16 points 23 hours ago

Aren't these separate issues? I won't pretend to know much about this, but it does seem like some companies are taking advantage of H-1B employees.

[-] FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 16 points 22 hours ago

That’s the point Bernie is making, American companies are firing American workers to hire H-1B at much lower wages.

[-] ZMonster@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

Never did I imagine living in a dimension that this was not so glaringly obvious that it needed to be said... [clocks room] We're fucked.

[-] 31337@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 day ago

He's been consistent on these issues for a while. "Open borders? That's a Koch brothers proposal."

[-] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Sanders cited data showing U.S. companies laid off 85,000 American workers between 2022 and 2023 while hiring 34,000 H-1B visa holders, arguing this undermines U.S. competitiveness.

He's against 85k americans getting fired, and being replaced by LESS immigrants.

[-] Etterra@discuss.online 65 points 1 day ago

[-] BedSharkPal@lemmy.ca 23 points 1 day ago

He took off the mitts to throw fucking hands!

[-] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 62 points 2 days ago

smarter choice to attack elon, trump wont be with us that much longer in the grand scheme of things. good chance he passes in office. one way or another

[-] exploitedamerican@lemm.ee 3 points 20 hours ago

Lets hope that massive pile of breathing human excrement passes his last mushy liquid mound of stool in his depends while sitting in the oval Office. Jd Vance is also disgusting but he had half a spine when he told the truth that trump is America’s hitler. Sold out his morals pretty quick to be American hitler’s vp though

[-] Apytele@sh.itjust.works 24 points 1 day ago

I'm honestly shocked his brain hasn't been devoured by syphilis yet, I guess he's listening to the experts around him juuust enough to take the abx, but if he's got sodium or other diet restrictions no way he's following them.

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[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 94 points 2 days ago

No Bernie let them fight. "Never Interfere With an Enemy While He’s in the Process of Destroying Himself."

[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

I think the expression is "Don't interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake."

[-] Quexotic@infosec.pub 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I generally agree with you but I think there's an exception to every rule, I mean, he just dumped gas on the MAGA dumpster fire. What's wrong with that?

Also, love me some barqs my dude.

[-] blackbelt352@lemmy.world 158 points 2 days ago

Oh he's absolutely letting them fight, he's just stoking them up more playing into the big issue splitting the republican party in two.

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[-] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 70 points 2 days ago

It's more like throwing a pork chop into the middle of a dog fight and running away lol

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[-] njm1314@lemmy.world 25 points 2 days ago

Strong disagree. Keep them riled up. Make sure musk isn't able to distract them.

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this post was submitted on 04 Jan 2025
549 points (97.1% liked)

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