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quick reminder (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by hairinmybellybutt@lemmy.world to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[-] Comment105@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Honest question, at what point does a workshop transition from ownable to not?

A small garage shop with a workbench and a tool wall is obvious enough, but can you own a separate workshop outside your home? Can it be far down the street, or out in a barn somewhere, or in the outskirts of town among large factories? Can you own a lathe? Can you own a CNC machine?

What tools are ownable and what tools are not? What's the scale-cutoff?

Bandsaws, drill presses, welders, large trucks, small trucks, cranes, sheet metal cutters and benders, pipe benders, etc.

Can you buy material? How much? Should it be limited by something else than your funds?

If you take on jobs that are too much for you to handle on your own, do you have to either make your means of small scale production communal, or give up the job?

Please draw some lines for me here.

[-] topRamen@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Can you have your own garden for food?

[-] SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Yes. What this is saying is large industries that are meant to feed people or provide commodities cannot belong to just one person. We are seeing the effects of monopolization right now in our time.

[-] deafboy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I thought owning the means of production was the point, but requiring a consistent argument from a communist is like requiring a consistent argument from a communist.

[-] JakeHimself@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

How do new means of production come to be? Like, if a community really wanted a unicycle repair shop, how would that get started? How would it be decided that we use resources for that shop instead of, say, a pogo stick repair shop? Would that be up to a local government (or some other governing body)? Honest question.

[-] Nano@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago
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[-] Ghyste@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

And now infographics are memes... Shitposts has more memes than this community.

[-] Furball@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

No, you see, you have to upvote it because communism is great

[-] UnverifiedAPK@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago

I'm about to leave Lemmy too because the main thing that shows up is /c/memes and half the time the posts aren't memes and when they are they're just reposts from 10 years ago.

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[-] PaperTowel@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This isn't really a meme

[-] hesiomn@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago

No cars though. Fuck cars.

[-] Rusky_900@reddthat.com 1 points 1 year ago

I'll never understand how owning guns is normalized.

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[-] Tedesche@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

How's about a website that generates money, like Facebook or YouTube? Can you own that?

What about products that designed to create ongoing streams of revenue, like a patent on an invention or a piece of art you can collect royalties from every time it is displayed? The USSR famously took ownership of Tetris away from its creator.

Under communism, how does the stock market work? I'm not a big fan of it, but it's pretty hard to imagine getting rid of it now that the global economy is pretty much dependent on it.

Today, five countries exist that can be said to be communist: China, Russia, Vietnam, Laos, and Cuba. Of those five, none have achieved actual communism, and several have inarguably embraced capitalism to a great extent. All of them have essentially authoritarian governments. Which is unsurprising, since a dictatorship of the proletariat is central to the Marxist vision of how to create a communist society, and involves the creation of a single-party transitional government that forcibly suppresses all its critics and rivals.

I'm not big into capitalism and I think we should implement plenty of socialist reforms, but I will never understand why some people on the Left—or anyone for that matter—think communism is what we should be striving for.

[-] CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 1 year ago

Under communism, how does the stock market work? I’m not a big fan of it, but it’s pretty hard to imagine getting rid of it now that the global economy is pretty much dependent on it.

Under capitalism, how would fiefs work? I'm not a big fan of it, but it's pretty hard to imagine getting rid of it now that our grain reserves are pretty much dependent on it.

[-] trot@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

"Today, five countries exist that can be said to be communist: China, Russia"

Tell me you have no idea what you are talking about without directly telling me you have no idea what you are talking about. In what way can today's Russia "be said to be communist", and how does its current, very explicitly anti-communist government, contribute to the point you are making?

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[-] voidMainVoid@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

The USSR famously took ownership of Tetris away from its creator.

He developed the game on company time. If he'd lived in a capitalist country, the government wouldn't have taken control of Tetris, but the company would have. Every software company contract I've ever heard of has a clause that says the company owns any code you produce while working there.

[-] Tedesche@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Yes, but you choose to work for a company. Don't pretend that's the same as the government of the country you happen to be born in taking ownership of your creations. In a capitalist country, had Alexey Pajitnov chosen to develop the game himself, he would have made much more from it. If he had done that in the USSR, he'd still have his creation and all its monetary proceeds taken away from him.

[-] HorseRabbit@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago

Under capitalism your choice is to sell yourself or become destitute. That's not really a choice, it's just indirect coercion.

[-] Tedesche@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Not going to waste my time with someone who has such absolutist views untethered to reality.

[-] HorseRabbit@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago
[-] Lucane360@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

No you can't own a platform like youtube or facebook, but you could make content on it, intellectul propriety is not a thing as you don't have to produce art just to get a monetary return, but just because you enjoy doing so, there's no need of a stock market in an ideal communist world because everyone gets what they need based on what they can provide, but if it's just a country i guess it's the government who takes care of it.

Regarding those 5 countries i'm not sure of every one of them, but talking about China as you said it's not a communist country but it is not a dictatorship of the proletarian either, as it's not the proletarian class nor their democratically elected representatives who govern the country.

In the end i'll add that greed is not more "human nature" that wishing to kill someone annoying.

[-] Tedesche@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Give me an example of a communist country that has not resulted in the creation of an authoritarian government.

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[-] masquenox@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago

think communism is what we should be striving for.

Simple - it's the ideal. Will we ever get there? Possibly not. Is it even desirable? Debatable. But it's always better to know where to go and not know how to get there than having the option of going anywhere and not knowing where to go.

[-] Tedesche@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Simple - it’s the ideal.

Not in my view. I don't want the State owning all sources of wealth and material goods. The problem with capitalism is that too much of that stuff gets funneled into too few hands. Communism is the same problem, just different people. No thanks.

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this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2023
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