At this point, any Russian families remaining in Crimea really should leave for their own safety. They know full well they live on stolen land.
Crimea is 76% russian. It was almost 70% russian before 2014 and it is around 76% russian today. Almost all of these people lived there already.
As others have pointed out, Crimea is not 82% Russian. The majority of the populace speaks Russian, but a shared language does not indicate a shared culture. They don't want to be part of Russia, and were illegally invaded.
Crimea wasn't "invaded". Russia was already there as it leased the port and officially managed it for military use already. That's why there was no fighting. They already ran the checkpoints, they already were the entire military presence in the region. The changeover from "this is Ukraine" to "this is Russia now" was entirely the signing of papers and changed absolutely nothing about the presence in the region or the average day to day. They certainly took it over, but to say it was invaded is somewhat misleading, more of a "we've decided that this is ours now".
This is a gross and flagrant distortion of events in Crimea leading up to the illegal annexation. It leaves out the fact that the operation of the checkpoints was still subject to Ukrainian governmental oversight, the fact that prior to the take-over, Russia illegally brought soldiers in unmarked uniforms over the border (the "little green men"), and the fact that the "changeover" was far from violence-free, let alone just a "signing of papers."
The denial of reality going on here is absurd. Pre 2014 I know they operated the checkpoints because I went to Crimea for 2 weeks in 2009. I'm not saying that there wasn't also fuckery involved but denying the reality of events is nonsensical. There is even a vice documentary that shows just how casual the transition was. It's extremely painful discussing these topics with people online whose only understanding of these regions comes through the lens of this war.
I never said Russia didn't operate the checkpoints. But prior to 2014, Crimea was indisputably Ukrainian territory, and Russia operated security checkpoints inside Ukraine at Ukraine's discretion.
No one is claiming that the annexation of Crimea involved violence at the scale of the current war, but it was not non-violent, either. Characterizing it as just "signing of papers" is false.
It’s extremely painful discussing these topics with people online whose only understanding of these regions comes through the lens of this war.
What other lens should we look at the annexation through? It was clearly the early stages of this war.
I'm not saying it wasn't Ukrainian territory. I'm saying that the presence there was 100% russian military because it was functionally operated as their military port.
This is precisely why there was no battle over it, no deaths, no nothing. Just "this is russia now" and continued operation of it as they always had but with different flags.
What other lens should we look at the annexation through? It was clearly the early stages of this war.
I'd much prefer a non-war lens of the place and how cool it is. Most people in america hadn't even heard of it until the annexation, it's very unfortunate.
I don't think calling it the early stages of this war is quite accurate but it's not really that important and kinda gets into unnecessary semantics. The war probably wouldn't be happening if the Minsk agreement had been kept. Russia were never going to let Crimea go because they needed it as a military port but they avoided Donetsk and Luhansk up until the Minsk agreement failed. If they had taken these regions in 2014 it would have been a breeze for them as Ukraine had no military to speak of, which is why the civil war was fought by the nazi volunteer batallions (azov, right sector, etc etc). Ukraine's military was ramped up between 2014 and 2021. They did not really have much of anything until the 2016 Stategic Defense Bulletin followed by the State Program for the Development of the Armed Forces (2017-2020). In 2014 the military was only 90k active personnel with over half being civilian staff.
We'd all prefer a non-war lens of Crimea. You're right, it was a cool and interesting place, and hopefully still will be when the war is over.
But Russia has no say over whether another country's territory will be used as Russia's military port. The fact is, Ukraine was amenable to hosting Russia's military there, so long as Russia didn't try to actually own the land, but they've forfeited their right to use it now.
Ultimately, Russia's military will be ousted from Crimea along with the rest of Ukraine, and that will be that. Had they never annexed it or escalated to open warfare, they would still be operating there freely today, with a much friendlier Ukraine happily hosting them.
I uhh. Don't share your optimism or actually care who runs it, I only really care that the people I know there remain safe. For them and for myself the flag be waved around is somewhat meaningless compared to the human impact of all this nonsense, particularly because some of my socialist friends are gone now. With that said I don't see Crimea changing hands again, nor does anyone I have spoken to currently in Crimea. I might change that assessment if the counteroffensive ever actually sees the first line of dragon's teeth but so far it's been completely underwhelming. Everyone also sees the deployment of clusterbombs as a "let's salt the earth so it's worthless to them" move rather than anything that will change the counteroffensive's prospects.
There is an easy way to end the war: Russian withdrawal. It really is as simple as that.
At any point in history Russian Federation had no right or business to occupy any part of Ukraine. It was up to Ukraine to decide what to do with those areas.
While we all want the war to stop, it cannot be done at any price. Ukraine must be allowed to return the areas stolen from it and Russia must return to pre 2014 borders. Either they do it willingly or with force. No one likes it, but it's Russia that chose to attack, not Ukraine.
I hope your friends are safe, but at the same time I hope they have the sense to leave Crimea until things settle.
And let's hope for peace, but recognize that it cannot be achieved by giving into the offender's demands.
There is an easy way to end the war: Russian withdrawal. It really is as simple as that.
Not physically possible under russian law.
While we all want the war to stop, it cannot be done at any price. Ukraine must be allowed to return the areas stolen from it and Russia must return to pre 2014 borders. Either they do it willingly or with force. No one likes it, but it’s Russia that chose to attack, not Ukraine.
Again, this is not possible under Russian law. The notion that it'll be done with force is similarly unrealistic, nukes would fly before these were taken by force. But before that happens you'd have to see the removal of the Russian warships off the coast which will be obliterating anything that comes near Crimea. It just isn't ever happening without a navy or an airforce.
I hope your friends are safe, but at the same time I hope they have the sense to leave Crimea until things settle.
They're fine for now. It's relatively quiet there because the defensive line is so far away, barring these bridge incidents.
And let’s hope for peace, but recognize that it cannot be achieved by giving into the offender’s demands.
We'd be there already if not for boris fucking johnson. I really don't know why you care about the "offender's demands" either. Are you a nationalist? People are what matter. I could not give a shit about what flag exists between the two, right now it's just a situation where two extremely shit sides throw thousands of lives into a meatgrinder and all I want to see is the meatgrinder stop.
all I want to see is the meatgrinder stop.
Even at the cost of Ukrainian territorial integrity? That’s for the Ukrainians to decide, and so far they’re picking the meat grinder. More power to them.
Yes. I could not give a shit about "territorial integrity". This is nationalism. I'm not a nationalist, I don't like states especially bourgeoise states.
You are putting nationalism ahead of people's lives.
That’s for the Ukrainians to decide
No it isn't. It's for the Ukrainian rulers to decide. The people don't get any choice in it, that's the problem. And everyone that opposed this war was rounded up and arrested, every left wing party in the country was shut down, and the left wing tv channels were also shut down, all under the "they're pro russia" excuse simply for being against the war. There is no "let the ukrainians decide" under that environment.
Support for the war is high in Ukraine. Where did you get your sources for freedom of speech being suspended in Ukraine and people with anti war sentiments getting arrested?
It’s ironic, you claim to care about the people, but you don’t care about what the people of Ukraine actually want.
Support for the war is high in Ukraine.
Unreliable after everyone that opposed the war was arrested, or taped to lampposts and beaten in the state's terror campaign carried out early on. My friends won't openly say anything to government sources or ""media"".
Where did you get your sources for freedom of speech being suspended in Ukraine and people with anti war sentiments getting arrested?
Every single left wing party in the country was literally banned. If you don't support the war you labelled "pro russia". It's not difficult to find examples of these arrests, and it's not difficult to find the videos of the terror campaign that was waged. If you want some of those videos I can go find them for you but it's pretty distressing watching hundreds of very deliberately public beatings to put fear into people, I really don't recommend.
Kiev has however moved to outlaw more leftist and opposition parties, taking steps to make a temporary ban on 11 opposition groups in March permanent.
Ukraine faced criticism after introducing legislation banning the import and promotion of Russian books and music on Sunday.
One of the new laws will forbid the printing of books by Russian nationals, unless they renounce their Russian passport and take Ukrainian citizenship. This will only apply to those who held Russian citizenship after the 1991 collapse of Soviet rule.
Another law will prohibit the playing of music by people who gained Russian citizenship after 1991 on media and on public transport.
Such freedom!
I see, thank you for letting me know! I see this is indeed more nuanced than I had thought.
Can you provide any proof of the “tied to lampposts” claim? I’m fine with seeing video proof if you have it
Sure, March 2022. This was a light terror-campaign waged by Ukraine to bring citizenry that were anti-war inline. Do some very public punishments and shaming in order to inflict fear into people about the consequences of talking or opposing the regime. This was all on Twitter but as with most things in this war Telegram is the only place to get it from.
Here are some examples:, CONTENT WARNING: Beatings, nudity and some racial violence.
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/3
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/13
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/33
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/48
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/58
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/64
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/89
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/91
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/111
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/117
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/118
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/119
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/120
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/121
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/122
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/123
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/168
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/169
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/170
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/171
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/182
I'm not going to be a moralist about terror campaigns, they get waged quite often in countries at war because they work very well. The first thing socialists would do in a post-revolutionary country is wage a terror campaign to reduce the opposition. The only reason I raise these is because libs arguing that the people are "free" at the moment in this country are deluded about the reality of the situation.
I recommend caution and critical thinking with that Telegram account too. It's not just anti-war it's pro-russia. The campaign that was waged shortly after the start of the war can't really be denied though, there's a lot more than this but I think it effectively paints the picture.
Russian speaking != Russian. A majority in Crimea voted for independence from Russia in 1991 and that desire for independence from Russia did not lessen between 1991 and 2014 when Russia's imperial war of conquest against Ukraine began.
A majority of Russians rose up in opposition against the Ukrainian government during the Ukrainian revolution in support of Russian annexation. You can't just ignore that a large number of people in Crimea were onboard with annexation.
Certainly can, and will! Nothing justifies another country just annexing that territory. Nothing. No amount of you talking will justify it. No number of people there who speak Russian justify it. There is no justification.
So, you don't care about the people or how they feel about anything? So when the people in Crimea felt they were being treated unfairly by the Ukrainian government, they should've just put up with it instead of standing up for themselves? With that attitude, the US would still be a British territory.
With this bridge being the only link between Russian occupied Crimea and the Russian mainland, we can look forward to a loooooooot more attacks of this kind.
nafo detected, opinion discarded
Зайдите в первый отдел за повесткой, товарищ
Lemmingrad wank moderated community. I'm out.
Edit: it appeara the problem has been rectified lol
You said you're out my brother :) Btw I don't see which mod is lemmygrad.ml
Look at the modlog, it's public.
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